what is good sound ?

Marco, I agree with you. I do not need to join a club to distort what I believe sounds good to me. But many audiophiles want and seek approval from others and in the beginning I was not that much different. I'm sure that is why clubs like that exisit. My system is a very personal to me including my music & have tried enough gear to realize that the very most important part of any system is the speakers. I can't put enough emphasis here. I have had audiophiles over to my house to demonstrate a preamp or power amp and some folks threw the money at me to buy it. I did however point out to the buyer that with different speakers it may not produce the same results.

Getting back to the subject at hand, I don't think that any system assembled will sound exactly like live music although some may come close and I'm sure that is what many audiophiles strive for but others in the end may prefer a more intimate venue and need only to please themselves.

Marco by the way, maybe we should all try some Grey Poupon just to see what all the fuss is about. I'm still using French's mustard.

Newbee: I never said anything about having the cellist come to my house. Again, you either know how a live piano, cello, flute, bassoon etc. sounds or you don't. You don't necessarily have to do a rapid A-B comparison to know whether a system is doing a decent job of recreating the illusion. You know it when you hear it. Of course, in many cases, the recording is a big source of the problem. That's why you have to find a few recordings that you trust. Enjoy your systems.

It doesn't take an expert, or a seasoned concert goer, or an audiophile who
changes their amp as frequently as their underpants to be able to judge a
stereo system. The convincing illusion of a musical sound, or a human voice
does not require someone familiar with sound engineering, musicology, nor
the design and manufacture of high-end audio components. The kind of
reproduction of sound that makes a persons hair stand on end or raises
goose bumbs requires no membership cards, secret handshakes or special
discernment based upon experience nor knowledge, in order to appreciate
that illusion. Because one person is intimately familiar with the nuances of
what a kazoo and jaw harp sound like does not put them in any better
position to judge for another person what sounds "good" for
them. To rely upon another person's opinion of how well a given system will
accomplish the illusion, no matter how experienced and knowledgeable that
person may be, could be just as unreliable as asking someone else which
movie you should watch, or which book you should read, or which food you
should eat, or which wine to drink. Yes, you may get some opinions that
actually work for you, but they are still only that; opinions...just as much of
an illusion, if you will, as the reproduction of the sound. The supposition of
the question here, to me, implies that there is some objective means of
judgement of such things. This is an oxymoron..."judgement" can
never be objective no matter how scientific. Science that was proved to be
"true" a hundred years ago is now held in doubt, and some of it
may no seem as absurd as the flat earth. Why do people need assurance
from others that what they enjoy in life is "right" to be enjoying?
Do we want tunas with good taste, or tunas that taste good?

"..the kind of reproduction of sound that makes a persons haid stand on end or raises goose bumps..."

What makes this happen to me, and I even tear up, is when I listen to Eva Cassidy sing 'Over the Rainbow'. This music is so emotionally charged (for me). Its not technically a great recording by a long shot, in fact the recording techniques can be distracting if thats whats important to you. Its the performance! Judy Garland's version is beautiful, but it puts me to sleep - just some dreamy kid.

I've never heard Eva live, don't know if how I hear her is anywhere close to live, but what I do know is I don't need to worry about buying new stuff to increase my appreciation of her music. I can just close my eyes feel the emotion she is expressing by the way she sings ....

and, come to think about it, maybe if I were to STOP listening to live performances I may well forget what they sound like (the sounds of live instruments played in an appropriate space). I'll probably then be much happier using equipment that doesn't come close enuf to 'audiophile apporved' because I can convince myself that I'm as close to 'live' as I can get.

Maybe the lesson to be learned is, if you're really into music, it can pay to be ignorant. Think of all the money you can save. Buy more music.

By now, got to go listen to Eva.............:-)

Jax2: Accuracy isn't subjective. It's either accurate or it isn't, at least to varying degrees, and perhaps few people are able to make that determination. You have to know what an instrument is supposed to sound like before you can know if a reproduction provides a reasonable illusion. You are, however, right when you say that one person cannot judge for another person what sounds "good." That person may hate the sound of an accurate system.