Tube question

Warren, I don't believe that you will have any tube manufacturers chime in here for explainations. If they did, they would probably tell you that tubes today are better than ever. At least many measure that way, but then transistors have better measurements than tubes, so what does that tell you?

ok, given that Chassbo, are those Chinese/Russians up to snuff? Why not then? What is it in the inherent nature of the tube that is making it so hard to duplicate with the same quality? or is that not really the case?

Basically your questions are unanswerable. 'What is the meaning of life?' kind of questions. Science can't figure out why people prefer the sound of tubes when transistors test better on the scoresheet. Science cannot figure out why people prefer vinyl when digital test better on the scoresheet. Why ask why? Just listen and enjoy.

One analogy that I have heard from a tube equipment manufacturer goes back to the same answer that has basically been ignored over and over in this thread...demand.

He said, what are the odds that a golfer who golfs 3-4 times a year will be better, or even as good, as a golfer who golfs 3-4 times a week?

In other words, there really is no use for a high quality tube anymore. It's not like we use them for military applications like we used to. Many of the best tubes were basically driven by the military powers of the West. That's where all the $$$ were spent on quality, PQ's, 7308's, JAN, what have you, because lives were at stake.

The stakes on tubes are not quite so high these days. They're pretty much just for musical pleasure. That's all.

Or maybe, just maybe...stay with me here....the vacuum tubes get better as they age and leak. Maybe today's stock will sound as good in 40 years as todays NOS tubes today. Yeah...that's the ticket....you have to age them like fine wine, or a good bottle of scotch........yeah, that's the ticket.....if only they would put less vacuum in a vacuum tube, they would sound better right off the bat. :)

John

Hi John,

In 40 years (or less) aging and hearing won't be priority ...... I'll be six feet under in my own
leaking vacuum !

First, NOS tubes can produce more of an audible effect as the quality and tweaking of your system improves. Same as a car...you can feel the difference that a few pounds of tire pressure produces in say a Ferrari. A Neon or Focus, and you couldn't tell if the tires were only inflated to half pressure!

Second, the purity of chemical compounds used on the cathodes is much better than on modern tubes. The vacuum isn't as hard on modern tubes. The tolerances [especially on the grid wires and their windings] are nowhere near NOS tubes. I think it was RCA that determined that the location and bend angle of the grid wire terminations could effect the performance. When their manufacturing plant closed, file cabinets full of decades worth of irreplaceable engineering data were just left in the abandoned buildings...generations of knowledge lost forever. Also, I believe that EVERY NOS tube was burned in for 100 hours at racks in the plant.

That being said, NOS tubes were not made with the audiophile [came later on] in mind. It is important to have someone test [and match, if necessary] the NOS tubes, as some can be quite noisy, especially if used in a MC phono preamp. Andy Bowman at Vintage Tube Services is the best, period! Chinese tubes seem to be VERY quiet, but they will not last all that long, compared with an NOS. But at the cheap prices for Chines tubes, does it really matter?!

Actually, the only demand for tubes is from audiophiles [not really a market, in the big scheme of electronics], R.F. applications, and guitar amps, most of which use a 6L6, so these 6L6's will be produced forever!

This is all my own personal opinion...

In the vast majority of cases, I find the Russian tubes to be more than disappointing. The Sovteks tend to be grainy, harsh, and bright, while not offering good detail or frequency extension. The EH, which some claim to sound identical to Sovteks, are nothing of the sort to my ear. Instead, they're quite dark and slow sounding, much like the way Chinese tubes have historically sounded. I think a lot of people confuse this as being "warm" or "analog" sounding. The real Svetlana tubes can be OK.

Tubes made in the former Yugoslavia can be decent, depending on the model.

The JJ/Tesla/Teslovak tubes are often excellent. In fact, their E34L, KT77, and KT88 tubes compete well with the NOS standards.

Historically, the Chinese tubes were not at all good. Again, I have listened to the latest Triple Mica Shuguang 12AX7, and while they do not eclipse my reference (so they don't live in my amp), they have beaten some of the most highly regarded 12AX7 in audio history - including my former reference. As shocking as it is, I have to admit it. Which is a GREAT thing for us buying tubes. If anyone told me this, I'd say they were flat out crazy. The Penta/Shuguang KT88 has also impressed many.

Which brings me to my real point - no one, I don't care if it's me, a reviewer, a trusted tube seller, can replace the experience of you listening to a tube, and forming your own conclusions. Just like everything else in life...

Andy says that German, Holland, England: The three tube champs, each have their own sound. Very interesting, and it's still his opinion that they are not made as good as yester year. That being: Trela, may I ask you what tubes the Mica Shuguang Eclipsed including you old reference? And what is your reference 12ax7s, now? Just bought NOS 12AX7s from Andy and I'm wondering what your experiences have been? warren :)