Is an IPOD hi-fi?

Ferrari, you are making good progress.

Ferrari,

I don't understand your hatred for Steve Jobs and Apple. I use their system and love it. How about you compare Apple to Bill Gates monstrous money making machine, and realize Apple is the bit player.

Did you stop to consider that many products we take for granted fall into the same category of being built by abused labor, the same as you accuse Apple of?

This stressed out, overworked Asian labor force has taken manufacturing away from Americans simply because of cost. They have a lower standard of living and massive population AND they don't pay the taxes nor do they have OSHA, FEMA, a labor Union or other forces raising their cost of production.

Consider the line up at CompUSA, including all the Windows computer machines built in those factories.

Next, take a look at the cell phone manufacturers, other brands of MP3 players, accessories, computer monitors, mouse and keyboards, desktop lights, CD cases, battery chargers and on and on. There are precious few items in persistent everyday use that don't fall into this category, even our paper shredders, Blackberry's, wireless household phones, ink jet printers and fax machines.

Stop and tally up the items that DON'T source some or all of its labor from the same place and in the same way that Apple does. Even worse are some of the other industries we worship, such as clothing manufacturers. Designer items that we pay hundreds of millions of dollars for, born from some of the crudest sweat shops on the planet.

Not all that long ago, those same work conditions existed right here in America. Some involving child labor with long hours and very low pay. So, do we continue to trade with these countries passing though a stage of evolution that we have already gone through?

Perhaps it's better if we trade with them, continue to press for change as we become more dependant on one another and work toward rights for their people, the same as we have (mostly) accomplished here.

Or Is it preferable that we live in isolation, hoping things will improve by accident? Should we just hope and pray that other governments and power brokers will accomplish a better life for them, hoping they are less "corrupt" than our own capitalist motives?

I'm not happy with things either, but Steve Jobs is not the anti Christ nor is he the problem here.

If you hate Steve Jobs for the way he runs his company, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. For me, he represents one of the few rare creative marketing forces in computers today. Certainly not as gracious as those supporting open source and free internet, at least he does not purposefully build flawed software with source code built in to spy on the buyer.

If you doubt this code exists, download a copy of PeerGuardian and put it on your Windows machine. You cannot even launch a copy of Word without it spitting out data to Microsoft to let them know who you. Same for PowerPoint, Internet Explorer and other popular software.

Apple does NOT do this and their software does not keep count of how many Apple computers you install your operating system on. Combine that with the fact Apple sells their operating system for a fraction of what Windows commands and perhaps you will have a bit gentler idea about what kind of company Apple is.

Are they perfect, hardly. Guilty of making money the Capitalist way? Yes. But considering the conduct of the other players, Apple is a very fair and balanced operation and one that had earned my deepest respect.

I started a response earlier this morning, but just don't have enough time to spit out all that comes to mind. Here's what my initial response was:

For many years now,I thorougly research individuals and the the companies they run, before I buy their product. I believe if we all did due diligence before the purchase, we as consumers would have a greater impact on the market place than we do.

Just a further note on the same topic; I'd bet if most of us did the same due diligence on their wardrobes they'd be walking around in the Emperor's New Clothes. Do you do the same kind of research on everything you buy? What about the chips in the computer you're typing on? Who wrapped the transformers in your audio gear? Yes, I agree, if more people did that, the world might start to change. But it seems to me like a daunting task to actually consistently follow through with. Again, of more urgent concern to me are the more national issues I mentioned in my previous post, simply because they are more about our immediate fundamental needs, and the future of our youth and our planet. Our country consumes on the order of five times more of the natural resources of the world, than the world average, and is so far behind on regulations that would curb our horrendous contribution to poking a hole in our atmosphere. Not to say a world-view should not be ignored, but it seems we need to take care of things at home before we tackle those much more broad-reaching issues. What any of this has to do with the quality of an iPods output is beyond me.

As far as Apple and Steve Jobs is concerned; I agree with Albert, they make brilliant products that actually function as they should, are easy to use, and look good as far as working with those materials are concerned. My understanding is that Bill Gates' benevolance is more far-reaching and profound than Jobs. I still find no reason to condem either of them for running a successful company.

Marco

Okay - It is readily apparent that few if not none contributing to this thread have seen 3rd world work force exploitation first hand. To say its gut wrenching is to say the very least and to turn a blind eye to it for sake of profit is in my opinion damning. There are certainly other countries where labor is less than here. Take Rawlings for example. All of the Major Leaque Baseballs used in a season are made there, and these people are paid a decent living wage in a modern facility, and the locals love working there. Been there seen that.

No I do not hate Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, I know of them only through their dealings and what has been made public.

Even here in the U.S. we have sweat shops, that should turn the stomachs of any of us. But these are faceless workers, not worthy of consideration, because we continue to support the goods manufactured by them.

I know I am in the minority here, but I do look for goods,products and services whether made here or elsewhere where the standard of living is commensurate with their local economy. Face it $50.00 a month buys damn little anywhere in the world today.

I have no problem buying goods from Canada,UK, or most EU countries and do so. Someone made a comment about the garmet industry. Well guys very little of what I put in my closet that does not have a union label. See one sweat shop and you get the idea very quick.

Finally I don't condemn Steve Jobs, or Apple or Bill Gates, but in my opinion they can do much better. Remember there was a time when we all demanded the best from each other, sadly that appears to be dying for no other reason than pure greed.

But I am in the minority here and readily admit that. In the final analysis buy what you want,whenever you want it and turn a blind eye on the practices that brought it to you.

And back to thread itself. In my opinion the I-Pod is not HiFi by a long shot. However it appears to be an excellent storage/retrevial system for down loaded music and precious little else.

Ferrari

Even here in the U.S. we have sweat shops, that should turn the stomachs of any of us. But these are faceless workers, not worthy of consideration, because we continue to support the goods manufactured by them.

Agree

Remember there was a time when we all demanded the best from each other, sadly that appears to be dying for no other reason than pure greed.

Agree.

And back to thread itself. In my opinion the I-Pod is not HiFi by a long shot. However it appears to be an excellent storage/retrevial system for down loaded music-

Agree

-and precious little else.

Disagree.

It's an excellent storage/retrevial system for loading UN COMPRESSED compact discs for listening in situations where the iPod is preferable to what else is offered.

This includes (but not limited to)

Airplanes in flight, bad music combined with the sound of jet engines and cockpit chatter over the crappy intercom system.

Muzak at the gym when you are trying to concentrate on a decent work out.

Worse, same gym is tuned to the local hard rock FM station, complete with screaming DJ running his mouth about some contest or traffic conditions.

iPod through existing car system (many have jacks for this now) to avoid listening to FM or talk radio and carrying a case the size of a Zero Halliburton case full of CD's that are likely to be stolen if left in plain view.

Unplug the iPod, put in shirt pocket and all is well.