Shipping - Who's Resposible for Receipt of Item?

Sounds like a scam if it tracking shows it was delivered. Your in the clear. Lots of buyers' scams going on these days. Sellers have to cover their butts. I have lots of stories.... Good luck

Guys - I am always a little amazed at how little understanding there is of the rules of this site.

According to the Audiogon rules under which we trade, it is the responsibility of the shipper to ensure the safe arrival of the package. The policy states that:

"Regardless of this determination all items shipped will be F.O.B.* destination. In other words it will ALWAYS be the responsibility of the seller to guarantee that items shipped will be as described and fully functional upon arrival. The seller will further be responsible to insure each package for at least the amount the buyer has paid for the item."

This is admittedly a very unusual policy since FOB is normally at the sellers facility (manufacturing site) not the recipients.

Note too that the policy states that:

"FOB Destination" means the person shipping an item is responsible for that item until the person receiving it signs for it."

I agree that it gets dicey where the shipper confirms delivery but the buyer denies it. As I interpret the Audiogon policy, as the shipper you are off the hook when you receive confirmation.

Insuring it (or not) is up to you - not the buyer. You can of course charge him for the insurance which quite often exceeds the shipping cost... Though frequently when I end up having to eat the shipping, and its a low cost item I self insure - its a wash so far.

Note that for shipments above a certain value (depending on your carrier) a signature is usually required by the carrier - I guess we can learn something from the pros.

This policy, which is essential to the success of Audiogon, is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is the shippers willingness to pay up in the event of a claim. The fact is that you can spend a good chunk of money on insurance and never see a dime.

I think this is a tremendous achilles heel for all of us - I received a pair of floorstanders. Admittedly the seller had packed them very poorly - in the factory boxes. When I opened the box, the back was split, and the tweeter and the mid were hanging out. For this to happen, half a dozen nice size nuts were blown out of the cabinet. I documented the damage immediately with a series of photos and sent them to the seller. Seller talked to the carrier, called me and specified how he wanted the speakers repacked and had them picked up. They were shipped to the carriers facility for inspection - though the two boxes were never opened. The two boxes were returned to the seller a week apart.

As of this date, the seller has yet to see dime because there were no signs of external damage to the cartons...

Check feedback and be careful to make sure that paypal items are shipped to a confirmed address. If it isn't a confirmed address, be sure to write the buyer and release any liability to yourself.

The shipper is responsible for making sure the package arrives as stated. Which means opened and inspected and tested to make sure it works as stated in the ad. Once the buyer accepts the product is as stated in the ad, then the sellers responsibility ends.

I'm currently going through the same process, as the receipient. The UPS tracking number showed the package had been delivered, but I have no package. So I called UPS to make sure they had the correct address, they did. Obviously something was wrong. I contacted the shipper and he started a trace investigation, which will take a week to 10 days. At this point the package will either be found, or the shipper's insurance money will be refunded.

If this was a personal sale, I would wait the 7-10 days just in case the package was found. After that, I would expect my money back and let the shipper and UPS figure it out what went wrong. As in my case, it is from a manufacturer, I don't expect my money back, but another of the same item.

John

Audiogon's rules are not binding, but simply guidelines. If you break their rules their only recourse is to bar you from the site.

IMO a seller's responsibility is to take all reasonable actions to enable the shipment to arrive at the seller's address in the condition described in the original ad. This includes insuring the item during transit.

Once the item is in the possession of the buyer, or other houseold member it can get murky. Suppose the buyer signs for the package and while carrying it to his basement trips and the package tumbles down the stairs? Should the seller be responsible? The seller is suppose to box the equipment in such a way to protect it from shipping damage. But then again the buyer dropped the package. Is that really any different than someone breaking a stylus cantilever while setting up a turntable/arm? Is a seller responsible for a buyer's clumsiness?

Suppose the shipper knocks on the door and the person who answer is not suppose to have access to the premises. Say, a lousy crack addicted brother-in-law who knows where you hide the emergency key. He signs for the equipment and promptly sells it on the street for drugs. As a seller I don't see how I can have reasonably prevented this from happening. I also wouldn't hold the shipping company liable. How are they to know who is supposed to be in your house?

Ultimately, both the buyer and seller take a good deal of risk when they try a transaction. This system relies upon both parties acting in good faith and using common sense. Scammers will take advantage of this system. Unfortunately, trying to detail endless rules and responsibilities akin to the fine print in any commercial sales agreement will ruin the spirit of this site and chase away many potential buyers and sellers.