How do you pay? Why?

I agree with Tvad. As a buyer, the only advantage that Paypal offers is that you can use a credit card for private sale. I've had two major 'problems', when buying on AudiogoN. I've actually had more 'problems', but it only becomes a 'major' problem when the seller is uncooperative and/or misleading.

In these two cases, Paypal was of absolutely no use whatsoever. They make it very clear, that all the seller has to do is send you a package. It could be a box of rocks for all that Paypal cares.

The credit card bank however was a large help. In both cases, the bank wiped the charges off of my account, and had me ship the items to Paypal. That leaves the bank and myself in the clear, and the dispute then is between Paypal and the seller.

So the only real service that Paypal does supply, is the ability to use a credit card for private sales. On large purchases, I find the 3% fee well worth it, if for security purposes alone. The security comes from the credit card though, not from Paypal.

Regards,
John

Once a wire transfer has posted to your account, it cannot be reversed or undone by the remitter (the person paying). That is why a wire transfer is the only way a seller who wants to avoid problems (fraud, chargebacks, etc. - see below) should accept payment, and why payment by wire is by far the most common way that commercial transactions involving real sums of money are done (and the only way they are done for large commercial transactions).

As for PayPal, okay, okay, I'll come clean. The above posts attempt to explain that buying something (such as an amplifier or LP's) via PayPal in conjunction with a typical credit card permits the buyer to process a credit card chargeback in the event of fraud or where the goods do not conform to their description. In such cases, your credit card company essentially reverses its payment to PayPal for the amount of the transaction, and PayPal is left to collect from the seller (or you, the buyer, if they can't collect from the seller). If you as a buyer process a chargeback, you need to anticipate that PayPal will attempt to draw on your checking account linked to your PayPal account in order to cover its loss, so you must immediately close your PayPal account and/or arrange for your bank to deny any attempted draws on your checking account from PayPal (this may require account closure, depending upon the bank). It may be that the "fine print" of your agreement to use PayPal states that buyers will not use chargebacks (or if they do, promise to indemnify PayPal), but it would not be cost effective for PayPal to enforce these rights except where it involves more than $15,000-$20,000 (i.e., it's too expensive for them to hire a lawyer to sue you if you process a chargeback). Of course, PayPal's fee structure takes into account that 0.0001% of their customers are sophisticated enough to use chargebacks, so cry no tears for them.

In any event, this is the reason that (i) I refuse, as a seller, to accept PayPal under any circumstances, as an unscrupulous buyer can do a chargeback simply because he does not like the product -- a wire transfer is the only way to protect yourself and get deal finality, and (ii) as a buyer, I always use PayPal in conjunction with a credit card, as I can do a chargeback to negate fraud or handle unscrupulous sellers that lie about the condition of goods they sell. In fact, I buy everything I can with a credit card, as the ability to do a chargeback allows me to reverse problematic purchases (for the record, I have never, ever had to do a chargeback, but I have that option if I put it on a card). One cannot, generally speaking, do chargebacks with a debit card, incidentally.

Tvad, John, & Raquel,

Thanks for the warning re PayPal. I used it for my first purchase but not since. OTOH, I have paid with cashiers checks, telling the seller to ship when the check clears. Obviously that leaves me wih no protection from a unscrupulous seller. My purchases have followed several email exchanges in which I develop a sense of rapport with the seller, but I could be conned.

It seems Raquel wouldn't do business with herself.

I've found AMEX very effective at interceding on disputes. For example, I was stuck in Atlanta having lost my ticket, but the airline was unrelenting in their demand that I buy another one. When I got home, AMEX reversed the charge.

db

One noteable aside here for everyone posting here, and it was previously menntioned lightly above... Once. it may be just semantics too.

It is my understanding now, not before this thread began, that once all the money is handeld suitably by both parties and all that is left to do is have the merchandise shipped, at that point how many are aware that a "declared value" is not insurance?

I've noted many, myself included approach this additonal charge by a carrier as insurance. I've even had some carriers refer to it in the past as such.

I feel as I stated previously this portion of doing business, 'the shipping portion' is far too overlooked and no great light has been shed upon it as being equally important as is tranferring funds.

Given the responses thus far it would seem to indicate the largest amount of folks here see payment as more the important factor in completel;ing a deal.

I've had IMO great luck while shipping and recieving things personally. Over 40 times I've either sent or gotten sent to me, items that have arrived safely. Only twice has anything abnormal occured.

Thought I'd throw that in about a discerned value and it's differences from those of insurance. Doesn't that seem odd to anyone else? All this time I thought i was paying for safe sledding coverage... I wasn't. it's only a simple statement and an extra charge for it.