life without audio dealers

Unfortunately a lot of this discussion seems to be turning into a black and white situation. It is almost as if some are saying that if the dealer won't deliver endless pairs of expensive speakers to their homes for lengthy trials, then a B&M dealer is of no value whatsoever.

That is a "reductio ad absurdum" argument.

Yes, it is great when you can hear equipment in your own home before buying. I've had that pleasure and it is the "10" on a scale of 1 to 10 for a buyer.

However, if I get my choice of just reading or talking about a product before I buy it or actually listening to it, I'll take the listening choice, thank you. Listening in a dealer's room is very valuable to me, even if imperfect.

Even then, one has ample opportunity to tell the dealer about your room size, layout and other equipment, along with what type of music you favor and "how" you listen. Most dealers will be glad just to take your money if you want something, but I've also found them willing to discuss concerns you may have.

(On a side note, one thing that many dealers find aggravating about certain audiophiles is their strong desire to already know everything. This often prevents them from even asking for suggestions and help, or keeps them from accepting or even considering valuable advice.)

I'm not an audio dealer (though I did manage a stereo store some 30 years ago.) The types of buyers and the egos people have really haven't changed that much in that time frame. We're still human - the world would be a great place if everyone would just do things our way.

Things are messier these days with more products on the market and more distribution options. The Walmarts of the world and internet sales have affected all businesses; the audio world is hardly alone in this regard. That has made some things better and other things worse, but here we nonetheless.

'will admit that I have done the borrow "product" from my local hifi shop just to purchase it cheaper online, and I would probably do it again. No reason to pay retail plus tax when you can purchase at a fraction of retail, right?'

followed by....

'this would require people to open their homes to others'

Ben, you don't have any concerns about ripping off the dealers' time and resources; you think i'm gonna invite you into my house??? To extend your reasoning, why pay retail when you can just steal it? LOL

Seriously though, dealers are still relevant for many, i believe. Keep in mind that the opinions expressed in these forums are typically those of experienced, internet savvy 'philes with years of involvement in higher fi. I believe we represent a very tiny minority of those interested in good sound. It certainly isn't helpful to the cause of failing dealer support that there are too many dealers out there who have alienated the audiophile, myself included. i honestly can't remember the last time i had anything but a disasterous experience at a hifi shop. Some of them just don't seem to get it, even while they watch their customer base shrink and shrink and shrink some more.That said, we all know that there are some great dealers out there that earn their business by providing invaluable services to us and to those who may want great sound but don't have the time or interest to turn it into an obsession, like some of us do. Not all 'philes or potential 'philes have the time or energy to devote the time required to build a great system, and there is way too much gear out there that just isn't worth anywhere near the asking price. A very good dealer can be an enormous benefit guiding a customer. In the end, audio stores can survive if they offer a good service to consumers in a value sense and as specialists with superior product knowledge and customer support. Unless of course, Ben and his type take advantage of their honest efforts to provide a good customer experience and they throw their hands up in futility. Honestly Ben, what you're doing is not cool, ok?

I could live without B&M dealers. That said, if it was the case that B&M dealers disappeared completely, I believe that the environment would "morph" a bit, and there would be more hi-end manufacturers who would have to offer alternative methods of interaction. Direct sales, with generous return policies, and continued enhancement of the information that is available online would yield an environment that I could comfortably interact with ethically and get good value for the dollar.

I don't really think the current model works very well to begin with. There are several manufacturers that I would love to explore auditioning / buying, but my best option is to wait until something comes available used. There is no reasonable way for me to interact with a dealer even if I was wanting to, so I'm not sure that I'd be missing anything if the dealers suddenly went away.

- If no one payed retail....there would be no second hand.
- Nobody likes to pay retail...that includes me.
- Dealers are important to audio industry.
- Find the one you can trust - build relationship.
- Can you make it without them ??? YES
- Where do you audition ????? Dealer !!!! then you buy some place else - no wonder you can not build healthy relationship. Trust is everything, You just have to find it ( not an easy tusk ). When you do - it is great.
There are good and bad dealers. Good ones will be in business for a long time. Bad... will slowly die out.
The dealers I deal with...will always take care of me. If I want something that he does not have I will let him know, so he has a chance to find a similar product from his line or try to get it from the manufacturer. If not - no hard feelings. I trust him- he trust me. We help each other, talk about new products, laugh, listen to music. There is no......Yes sir, No sir. It is a relationship based on friendship. But it is very difficult to find.
Trust me, I dealt with many, many guys....and most are a.....s to say the least. But every blue moon you meet a good guy. Then it is worth it. Otherwise shop here or direct.

If you can't reliably and repeatedly extrapolate the listening evaluation from a dealer's showroom to your own system it implies that the sonic differences between equipment is very small yet somehow still critical, which is something of a contradiction. Or it could mean that a 2 or 3 hour listening session is not sufficient to judge a product's sound which would throw into question all the hifi show judgments and most "at a friend's house" listening sessions that are recited here on Audiogon.

A good audio dealer is hard to find, but once uncovered and a working relationship established they are most useful for their facilities, opinions and experience. To use their services knowing that you're going to be mail order/internet is far worst than even going slow in the left lane.