Soundstage wide and deep but not at all tall. . .

I recommend playing with the toe in, to see if that makes a difference.
If it is a problem of phase, try switching your speaker cables (at the speaker end) by putting the positive wire into the negative posts and negative wire into the positive post, see if that makes a difference. Some setups can be more sensitive to being inverted or non inverted.
See if you can borrow a good preamp (tube).

Newbee wrote:

"Also, FWIW, IMHO, if you are getting a lot of soundstage width, on the plane of the speakers, outside of the speakers, you are either playing recordings with a lot of out of phase information encoded, or you have something wrong with your set up. In a 2 channel system playing stereo recordings w/out recorded phase manipulation, all of the information on the plane of the speakers should be contained w/in the space between the speakers. If there is a sense of airiness and a huge 'soundstage' beyond the speakers laterally it is more likely than not the result of room/set up issues. Lots of folks like that sound but it can reduce your ability to get holographic (truely 3 dimensional) soundstaging.

I have to totally disagree with this.

Just because one gets the soundstage outside of his speakers does not mean anything is wrong. Sure there are some recordings that will do this more than others, some might be recorded in phase or some out of phase.

To me, a wide soundstage with good depth and height is a better holographic (truly 3 dimensional) soundstaging.
But that is my personal preference, there is no right or wrong, But I believe the one with the soundstage stuck in the middle is the one that is wrong (to me).
Most audiophiles I know prefer the wide (beyond speakers) deep soundstage. This is how you really can get your speakers to disappear. Room/set up, placement of the speakers and acoustic treatment can play a big roll here.

I realize soundstage and imaging is not everyones bag, but to me it is important. I am trying to create the illusion of a live event, a real stage at times can be huge and some with many different musicians in different areas all over the stage.
When you make your speaker disappear, then I think your getting it right.

But my road might be different then someone else's.
There is no right or wrong, only what your presence is.
Now what toppings did you want on that pizza!!

What type of HF response are you getting? How was the stage before the new pc's?

Subjectively there is nothing lacking from the high frequencies. Plenty of air ad detail. The PCs did not change the stage, although they improved other areas. The background became quieter, which in turn seems to further highlight the location and separation of voices and instruments..

Hi Benie,

A couple of things FWIW.

Firstly, you are, for the most part, 'right'. Everything is a matter of personal choice and you are certainly intitled to yours as I am mine. Absolutes are hard to find....

It would appear that we have similar goals except that I'm not intent on replicating a live performance. I've long since acepted the fact that I will never hear that in my home in my life time. So, I go for what I can get, a reasonably faithful replication of what is on the recording, warts and all.

If the recording has out of phase information that enhances the sense of width, highth, and depth that is what I want to hear.

If the recording has no out of phase information (or very little, often referred to as being 'dry') then I don't want to hear any.

Consider that out of phase information that creates a sense of spatiousness can exist not only because of its presence on the recording, it can also be present because of set up, and, not infrequently, by the design of the speakers themselves. When your system/set up creats unrecorded phase information it will not, IMHO, inhance the sound of a recording which has this information imbedded in the pits and grooves. To the contrary.....

I believe that speakers which are reasonably resolving and designed to be accurate, phase wise and otherwise, and are properly set up in a good room where its acoustics have been duly considered, you will come the closest to hearing the information that is in the recording. Some recordings have a very expanded sense of stage and some have a very narrow stage all of which is the result of the recording engineers techniques, desires and/or competence.

I also recognize that this relatively hair shirt approach is not universal. It would be wonderful if all of my recordings sounded 'live' or, in the alternative, that I could make myself believe that they did. They don't, I can't, and that is probably a major personal failing. :-)