Active or passive?

01-19-2020 2:30amIve done this demo (passive vs active) many times.  

Active properly executed will outperform passive.   The reasons are many: 1) losses through all those copper coils in the passive crossover 2) losses of power, dampening factor, etc though all that speaker cable at speaker level 3) lack of phase control in passives 4) ability to control phase in active 5) passives requiring one big power amp vs active needing the exact right power for each driver element.

The differences will be mainly heard in improvements in imaging, details, bass definition, and dynamics. 

Brad
ATC Consumer/Lone Mountain Audio    

Thanks so much Brad.  Great post and what I have heard also when doing the same thing.  I just never had the long time to really do this like you have.  I have heard it with a pair of ATC years ago and then with a German brand who's name I forget.  

Have you ever done this with anything other than your ATC's?  Being that I owned the Vandersteen Treo and now the Quatro's, I think I'm qualified (as a consumer, not a professional) to say similar things.  As Richard V told me, that if I were ever able to afford his new amps that were designed with the Quatro and Cento in mind, that I'd have a fully active speaker (although I would still need a speaker cable that gets in the way,lol).  He has always loved the idea of controlling everything from start to finish (he won't be making a server though as he's an analog dude).

Even in the KEF LS50's it makes a HUGE difference.

Honestly I have not tried a direct AB with passive and active of another brand the same model using the same amps right next to each other. The leaders in active from the pro side are ATC and Genelec, both jumped into active back in the early 80s around the same time so they have a lot of experience. While many view "active" benefits are focused on better/cheaper/matched to the driver amplifiers, I really think it’s the linear phase issue and making sure amps don’t clip for proper dynamics are the key advantages.

I can’t imagine it would not help any manufacturer who adopts the technique. There is nothing magical in the idea of active and no patents in the core idea. I believe everything will be active in the future.
Brad

As to why there aren’t more active speakers available, I think it’s due to the flexibility of picking your own amp at your comfortable price point and also being able to upgrade in the future. So you have both flexibility of sound characteristics as well as being able to spend less upfront with the option to improve your system later as funds allow. But that’s just my guess.

A pretty good guess and something Andrew Jones pointed out yesterday in his presentation to the San Francisco Audio Society. He admitted the amplifiers in his active speaker design takes away consumer flexibility, but he also talked about the benefits from a design perspective, especially removing the crossovers you that do nothing but color the sound with their "EQ". The presentation also included a demonstration of two ELAC Navis active designs, a book shelf and floor stander, neither use DSP in the design. Both were quite good and are priced very reasonably at approximately $2500 and $4500 respectively per pair.

Active...over 'n out. ;)

The best crossover is no crossover. Having said that I have not ever heard a speaker do low bass well. Maybe there is one out there but I have not heard it. So, we are stuck with subwoofers. I am going to side with George on this one. If you have not heard a subwoofer managed by a digital crossover with phase and time alignment as well as room control you are missing out on an incredible experience. The only other way to integrate a subwoofer is by shear luck and hours of tinkering. I have to say I was never real lucky in this regard. I can integrate any subwoofer in a few minutes with comprehensive digital bass management. 
Most of our program sources are now digital and in digital there is no distortion just numbers. You do need two more DAC channels and a way to match volumes (The amps I use for subwoofers have gain controls for each channel.) 
Now what about no crossovers elsewhere? My Acoustats have no cross overs now. I use a single Sowter transformer to drive each speaker. Sound Labs speakers have no cross over and I am sure there are others.
I think this is part of the magic with full range ESLs. A subwoofer however is even more mandatory with them although the manufacturers will argue otherwise. It takes a very large subwoofer system to match up with an 8 foot tall ESL and again digital bass management is essential.