Albert Porters after market panzerholz plinths

Aren't the two tables best optimized with different tonearm, and cartridge plus also set up and calibrated differently? Any combo of these could account for a difference. Not to mention dirt accumulated on the stylus, etc.

It's not as though we weren't aware of any of those variables. Everything was checked and rechecked with the same result. What I am describing was a the result of the platter being unable to maintain angular velocity which would have been well known to a turntable designer or other expert but not to us at the time. Live and learn.

II have a training that permit to know in " hours " what you could take " many months ". I already explained this to you in other thread even you " live " how fast I can detect " errors " or virtues due to that specific training.

Well, if I had only known this beforehand. I am now bowing from the knees.

John

Albert, the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 so be careful about accepting too many deposits now. My advice would be to go under the table and look at the pyramids.

Mapman, You have fallen prey to a common fallacy regarding direct-drive turntables, one that was first foisted on the audiophile public when we were led to believe that belt-drive is inherently superior. That is the idea that a direct-drive turntable would naturally be "noisy", because after all the motor is right there at the spindle/platter interface. But if you will take note of the actual manner in which all of the better direct-drive turntables are built, you will see this is a fallacy. Generally the magnet structure or stator of the motor is part of the platter itself or is firmly affixed to the platter when the platter is in place. Then the rotor part of the motor is a fixed non-mobile structure around the circumference of the magnet/stator. Thus when the platter is in motion there are zero moving parts separate from the platter; it is driven directly by the electromagnetic interaction of the stator and rotor. Only the bearing itself can contribute any noise into the system, just as it can also do in a BD or idler-drive. Moreover, the DD motor only has to rotate at 33.33 rpm, in contrast to the motor of a belt- or idler-drive turntable which has to rotate at many times the speed of the platter. Slower motors tend to be quieter than faster motors. As further evidence of this, all you have to do is look at the fantastic S/N ratios thus achieved by the best DD turntables. So, you are free to prefer whatever you prefer, but don't say that DD turntables are noisy per se.

I used to sell many belt, idler and direct drive tables back in their heyday and heard many. I could never attribute a clear sonic difference to drive type. Tonearms, carts, and other things but never drives. Nobody told me any type was superior. Strobe light speed indicators indicated that either drive done well could be equally accurate. I steered most customers to the belts in that DD tables cost more for no real benefit I could discern. I never sold any really good idlers, so I was not a fan of those at all.

These were my collective observations having been there and done many different tables. Granted, these were stock units and not the beefed up versions available today.

Either DD motor noise is an issue and the plinth the solution or not. I do not know for certain which but I don't think you can have both both be true. The plinth might still be helpful for external vibes, but as I alluded to above, there are other more effective ways to establish a solid foundation to isolate table from external vibes.

YEs, I am familiar with the fact that DD motors rotate more slowly and that in itself is an advantage (one of many any design can sport).

Dear Lewm: Maybe I'm wrong but I can't read where Mapman posted that DD TT are noisy per se.

Anyway I thinmk that the noise TT subject it is not a cue for real differences in TT drive mechanism performance.

If we take the best DD we can have noise figures like -96db in the SP-10MK3 ( it will be interesting to make a measure today in one sample of this TT. ) or around -100db like Rockport but there are good examples in the BD side with TT in the -90db values. I can't speak on this specific noise subject about idler drive TTs.

What for me is or could be interesting is not to know those " fantastic " values/specs but to know which is the TT noise threshold where there is no or where don't have any more influence in what the cartridge " takes ", where is that threshold TT noise figure/value where there is no more influence in the quality performance we are percieving.

Because: how can we sure that those -90db or -100 db or whatever are good enough?
This is something IMHO that belong to the TT designers as many other TT subjects/questions that today there are no clear and precise answers.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.