Albert Porters after market panzerholz plinths


I would like to hear from anyone that has purchased a panzerholz plinth from Porter Audio or a panzerholz DIY project.
Reading through all that I could find on this subject it's obvious Mr. Porter did his home work on his design.
My question to those of you whom refurbished, replinth and rearmed some of these direct drives has it advanced analog playback for you?

David
dbcooper
Raul says:
"Seems to me that many high end audio manufacturers in some audio products works by " feelings " when measurements can help them and can help us to have better quality performance products"

I agree with Raul. I have not seen much of any measurements or even design goals of an Analog system. Only TT design where any 'analysis' has been done was the Continuum table when it came out. They boasted used of Aerospace technology analysis tool - NASTRAN, i believe. Their web site does show some plots/contours.

It is true that measurements don't tell much but at the same time you need to know what to design and measure for. In case of an analog system assuming you do need to know the interaction of constant speed rotating platter and up and down motion of cartridge and tiny forces ( may be not so tiny at needle pressure point) that are generated. Ideally the design should be such that that no external influence comes in to corrupt the signal created by this interaction. External influences like motor vibrations, motor fixed to plinth. tonearm, tone arm mounting structure and or external sound pressure. With all the design parameters solved there is still this material compatibility issue.

The static external influence may be easy to resolve, but dynamic may not be - especially the random vib generated in high resonance freq region. May be having brute force plinth, with right material is an intuitive answer, which may in fact resolve the issue (and in fact that is what Albert is noticing in way of improved performance) but measuring the random vib or lack there of would confirm this issue. As far as motor goes, you could be able to measure the random vib environments it creates- nude and design and measure the plinth to suppress this vibration energy in the know freq range area. ditto for other system vibrations. Sure easy for me to say. We do deal with random vib issue all the time in aircraft structures and adding a mass is the last thing we resort to , obviously, rather to kill or move this vib environments away from 'damaging' region or kill it by providing adequate damping.
Is there any such thing as over damping in an analog system? May be.
I sure would like analog design manufacturers to provide me with scientific back up of the design and fixes they did empirical means and or by ear and why.

Not to say Albert's plinth does not achieve this ultimate goal. I am sure it does. May be a knowledgeable test lab could verify. It may not be economically viable though.

It would be great to know what part of the audio freq range is improved with this added plinth ( v/s it original or nude plinth). In other words pl characterize the improvements for interested audience.
Regards, all. I've been following this thread with interest and am reminded of this site:

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/sp10plinth.html

As there are some familiar names mentioned, I'm sure several of the knowledgable posters here are aware of this site but it seems to offer good information, such as data relative to the propagation of sound through various materials taken from "The Practising Scientist's Handbook", written and compiled by Alfred J. Moses (Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, New York, 1978). Also a comparison by the host of various plinth materials and the effect on tt performance.

Please do continue this discussion as there is much insight into the considerations of plinth (or absence of) construction from all of the remarkably experienced audiophiles who have shared their thoughts on this matter.
Well, I thought I had a handle on this. Now it appears to have increased in complexity beyond my level of comprehension.

I understand that sound propagates at different speeds in different materials, but how this has an effect on the resulting sound in teh case of a turntable plinth is beyond me. I thought the goal of the big massive plinth was just to limit motor vibrations, not play a part in transmission of sound. How does that happen?

My gut feel is this article relates some interesting facts for consideration but that you are really cutting hairs with little chance of predicting end results trying to sort through any of this in a quantitative yet meaningful way.

On teh other hand, I suppose that's what being on the bleeding edge is all about, so cut away.
Dear Weisselk: First than all I'm not a plinth designer as you and the other gentlemans are.

Second Dbcooper ask for to you the manufacturers and third my post on the subject was only trying to understand that measurements always could help.

+++++ " With all your audio knowledge, I would imagine you would know the scientific parameters of significance? " +++++

certainly and due that you are in the plinth design/build as the other gentlemans you have more in deeep knowledge level that any of us mere audiophile " mortals ".

What I can say you is that for the time ( very remote this could happen. ) I take the design and build plinth " enterprise " you can be sure that I will be aware of those scientific measurements that could help in my design.

That you and the other gentlemans you name it do not have ( yet ) or even are not aware off means only that you don't have it: not big deal, this is a normal part/fact of the AHEE and we are accustom to.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
One of the problems with measuring turntables today is that the tools for doing standard DIN tests are no longer available. Sure you can measure noise with an unmodulated groove on a test record, but then you'd only have a number and no meaningful way to compare. The original Panzerholz plinth was done on a lark and designed intuitively (although after a great deal of research). It worked so well that it was decided to share it with others. You really have to hear it to appreciate it. It is impossible for me to imagine how it could be improved upon. I don't think it could even be made more compact.