Amir and Blind Testing


Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro

It is is not a question about pure audibility in a quantitative measurable way ONLY, it is mainly a question about the information content in what we hears...

Then a ears/brain trained musically and acoustically is not necessarily "Better" in his power of resolution than some another non trained ear/brain, the learned biases make him able to perceive what another similar pair of ear will never " see" without training... A bias is also attention focus piloting ability, a guidance, not only a blinder, or a bad conditioning....

 

What we hear, his content, color, form, dynamic, living qualities are not determined only and mainly by a decibel meter or by the measurable brute Hertz range...

The information content about all the qualities of a resonant body, a cavern, a piece of wood or metal, a fruit or a vegetable, a musical instrument, or any resonant object put in a state of vibration by us and from which we extract many HIDDEEN qualities, this information content is notmeasurable in Hertz and in decibels at all....

The only fact that you seems to ignore this voluntarily speak much louder about your opinion than anything you will say about the Hertz range of audition and decibel range which anyway is true for sure...We are limited, and saying that is a common place trivial argument that do not go to the crux of the matter...

The specific intonation of a player, the listener envelopment acoustic factor, the micro structure of a playing instrument timbre, the meaning of a symphony, the synergy between musicians, the reverberation time effect on imaging and timbre in a room , etc all that and many others characteristics, like echolocalization  in trained  blind people has a great information content we must learn to perceive, and perceiving it dont means that i PRETEND to be  a "bat and that i claim that  you are limited compared to me in the Hertz range and in the decibel range...

Decibels and Hertzs are ONLY some quantitative aspects of sound, and attacking someone because he claim  that the ear is better than any limited measuring tool reflect only ignorance,  no one ever  pretended to be superior, or a "bat" out of the human range, to do so it  is not fair and it is scientifically naive...

Anyway we are all potential  training bats also....The ears is the beginning and the end for any musician and acoustician journey, in a way any measuring tools could not  ever be...Any tool will be more limited anyway in all those other dimensions of sound that the multidimensional ear/brain which will be able by contrast to capture, isolate and translate  a sound in a new information content...

 

We must learn to be listener in spite of our limitations....Great acoustician, great , musicians, some blind people can train us....

And remember that in human history the worst limitation of man are the self imposed one...Not the evident one....Calling them miracles will not erase them from our own potential ....

 

In a word: we "see" the complez information content of the sound, we dont hear it ONLY in Decibel and in Hertz or in Savart scale dimensions or in any other measurable dimensions....

 

You may hear better than I and 90% of the population but that tells us what? When you hear good enough to pick product A from B when they both measure beyond human audibility or measure within .1% variance using only your ears in a controlled testing regimen then you’ve told us something useful.

@redlenses03 His methods have been debunked numerous times, depending on where you sit in obj vs sub viewpoint.

Why should the legitimacy of methods used for the purpose that they are intended depend on where you sit?

To advocate such a view in aspects of western civilization would result in bias, unfairness and a breakdown in tolerance and the rule of law.

As one person said on the first page of that link -

Just... Whatever you do, please don’t let mr A back in. Natural justice? Giving the man a chance to respond? Bugger all that. There is no end to a conversation with A: let’s not have one.

 

@chayro , not at all because in AB testing you are comparing two subjects with the same frame of mind so whatever your frame of mind is cancelled out as long as no biases creep in which is the tough part and why double blinding the comparison is the best way to avoid bias. None of this is that serious. It is not like we are evaluating medical treatments. I do AB comparisons for myself and my own education and could give a squat over what other people think. 

The problem for many people is they trust their own perception. This just does not work well for hearing. The result of all this is an entire industry based on deception. As long as it is not my money why should I care? 

Saying an half truth will not solve the problem...

The ear can deceive YES and the measuring tools can deceive us also when we focus on one aspect of sound only, or when we focus on the GEAR or the TOOL instead of the acoustic multidimensional aspect piloted by our hearing...

People throw their money in upgrading the GEAR because the measuring tool say so in the publicity...

Instead of upgrading toward costlier components, learning acoustic by ear will liberate them from the consumers market conditioning selling the GEAR because of some MEASURED specs say so , underestimating acoustic experience of our trainable ears is the sin of the measuring fads and the cardinal sin of the SELLERS.......

Acoustic is not only a set of equations it is also a brain/ears experience and the dynamic correlation between the two in real time in our room ...We must learn our room...

Saying that the ears are not trainable because it cannot be trusted is like painting yourtself in a corner....

Repeating that the ears are not to be trusted is an half truth worse than a lie....

 

The problem for many people is they trust their own perception. This just does not work well for hearing. The result of all this is an entire industry based on deception. As long as it is not my money why should I care?

 

If you can't trust your own perception why listen at all, obviously you can't enjoy music unless there are graphs and measurements.