Amir and Blind Testing

To someone with a hammer everything looks like a nail.

That is so funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Learning how to listen to our stereo systems is very important.  So back in the day I could walk into a real live brick and mortar store and hear a state of the art stereo.  Then I would go home and listen to my system and I would think, "wow, my system sucks."  Now I would go back to the store and listen again to see why the stereo in the store sounds better.  Is it the amp, the speakers, the preamp, the source or the room?  What about the sound is better at his store vs my no good stereo at home? This could also apply to a friend or group of hobbyists where you have the opportunity to listen to their systems.

An equipment manufacturer might want to bring in some mics and measurement equipment to understand why the sound is better but most of us learned to depend on our ears and our notes.  In fact, without the opportunity to hear other stereo systems - be it at a friends house or a store, our systems can become quite off and we not even realize it.  At least until we get in our car one day and think, "Man! This car stereo sounds better than my home stereo."  Been there too.

For example, about two years ago now I got to hear the Alexia 2's in Atlanta for the first time.  I went home and thought, wow the bass in my stereo system sucks.  I went back and listened some more and started hearing the differences between the  Alexia's and my speakers.  I was just about ready to drop some serious $$$ for new speakers but decided to first work on my room, speaker placement and I also added subwoofers which took another several months to position and tune.  I'm at the point where my system has bass almost as good as the Alexia's but good enough at least that I'm no longer motivated to upgrade.  It took me several months of work, including putting in a wood floor but I can say from experience that speakers are not the number one influence on the sound.  It is the room and then the electronics.  Of course, the speakers have to be reasonably qualified.

My point is some actual measurements are needed at times but critical listening skills can guide us to build exceptional systems.  

Oh, and the other thing- it took months to find the best position for the speakers and subs because what sounded good one day sounded terrible another day.  It can take time and patience to get dialed in.  I also spent some time listening to the Wilsons over a year plus and I did buy some other gear at that store since I spent so much time there.  I still think they are great speakers.

Look, you didn't even know the bureau of standards has been defunct for 35 years. Don't try to invent a backstory at this point in some questionable call to authority with made up qualifications. You didn't even know what NIST was till I put it in a post. If you were truly an engineering manager involved with metrology, you would know this. You did not.

You don't know what would be calibrated on a spectrum analyzer, let alone an audio one, or even how it would be relevant to the information being presented, most of which is differential in which case, calibration is effectively of no meaning. Whether one item is 1 and the other is 1.1, or one is 1.1, and the other is 1.21 is not relevant in a differential comparison. Again, if you were an metrology expert, you would know this. Similarly, whether something is 1.000KHz or 1.001KHz in audio would not be important. If it was, we could never use turntables.

On top of that, many instruments today incorporate self calibration features. In a device with an independent generator and recorder, if the recorded result matches the expected generator output, then you can be rather confident of the calibration.

tonywinga

193 posts

04-16-2022 at 01:08pm 

Wow, another self proclaimed expert.  Spectrum and frequency analyzers do need to be calibrated.  Since I was an Engineering Manager for several years with one of my responsibilities being test equipment design, calibration and repair in a major Aerospace Company I know that first hand.  All test equipment should be traceable back to the Bureau of Standards or NIST for serious test work or analysis.

@mahgister 

I understood quite clearly what you posted. You without any lack of clarity accused the users of the Audio Science site of ignorance wrt the need for room acoustic treatment. I will post it again.

Their common point is a total ignborance of acoustic condition because they need electrical tools they dont need to tune a room... All rooms are equal for their activities....

This is in my experience and to anyone who happens to visit there patently false.

I expect you went there and tried to tell some experts in acoustics how to do acoustics, and it was not well received. Based on your posts, it is likely you made some claims wrt what you could accomplish by ear alone that from my own audio journey is not impossible.

Audiophiles can't have it both ways. You have Tony complaining that a device was not recently calibrated to a 35 year defunct Bureau of Measurements meanwhile almost no companies in this industry supply any measurements let alone NIST traceable while you claim that your ears are "accurate" enough. Surely you see the irreconcilable issue here?

deludedaudiophile, you seem very defensive about this topic. I get the impression that you manufacture a product and are trying to rationalize not using certified or calibrated test equipment. That would be sloppy work indeed. Any manufacturer publishing specifications for their product should be backing up those specs with data from certified, calibrated instrumentation. If not, they could find themselves in hot water I would think if not able to defend their published claims.