Anti skate and tonearm damping query

Stringreen

That is not correct, stylus friction follows the classic Amonton law so the friction is independent of velocity. This can be confirmed by a modification of the test Doug Deacon used to demonstrate that Dertonarm's idea was completely false.

Using your blank disc and having satisfied yourself that skating has nothing to do with null points, set the antiskate on the arm so that the arm remains stationary at 33 RPM. Now change the speed to 45 RPM and observe the result.

Axelwahl antiskate is properly a function of offset not overhang.

Mark Kelly

Dear Mark,
use your test, whereby the tip of the stylus only touches the vinyl.
The contact area thereby sees no off-set, and simply assumes the shortest point between contact area and pivot = one of the vectors. Overhang to the spindle is creating another sector, with the spindle to pivot a third.

Thereby off-set is not involved, yes?

Axel

another *sector* should of course read: another *vector*...

Axel,

Try your experiment using a pivoting arm having zero offset angle (like a transcription arm). Provided the cantilever is aimed correctly (i.e., directly at the pivot point of the tonearm), skating force will be zero. This will be true regardless of overhang.

Skating force is generated when we mount a cartridge at an angle in the headshell such that the cantilever is NOT aimed at the tonearm pivot (in a word, offset). Overhang has nothing to do with it.

Using that transcription tonearm (which has zero offset by design) you could still create an inward skating force by mounting a cartridge at an inward angle, just as on a regular tonearm that has built in offset. You could even create an OUTWARD skating force by mounting the cartridge at an outward angle. Again, you could do either of these regardless of overhang.

Dear Doug, lets not mistake the torque tension force (which is indeed a result off the offset angle at the headshell) or the J-/S-shaped form (featured on tonearms with detachable headshell) common on most pivot-tonearms (and seldom addressed....).
As many (not all) a tonearms do not feature any lateral balance device at all to counterbalance the torque tension of its armpipe, these all too often do indeed produce a movement on a plain record.
I have performed the test you suggested several times.
With my 12"+ tonearm and a cartridge with Q4-capable stylus the tonearm (... with correct applied lateral counter-balance and on a dead level TT) sits still (no inward move) at the 2 zero error points of the tangential curve.
Am I missing parameters?
Pure luck ?
Coincidence ?
Correct model ?
Whatever......
Fact is - as a selected handful (precisely...) of the bavarian routed A'goners do know very well - that sibilant distortion, inner groove distortion or "wandering images" are non-existent on the front-ends set-up by me.
And no - these aren't all FR-tonearms, but do include DaVinci, Kuzma 4P, Graham, SAEC, Micro MAX, Triplanar (to name the better of the pivot-designs).
9" to 12" which - by the way, Axel - can not really be distinguished in groups by their overhang.

And yes - exactly - what would we prefer?
A "simple" (but precisely designed and engineered - all too often forgotten as we are so accustomed to it - german car or a "complex" (....complex ? where ?) british one (and - oh, sorry - is there still any major british car brand NOT owned today (and improved in terms of reliability and performance by its new owner) by either BMW, Audi or VW .... Jaguar is owned by Ford isn't it?).....?

And yes, I know that the japanese cars are even more reliable - fact is that I still prefer 2-3 japanese born tonearms (which by the way did address the issue of torque tension producing lateral movement...) above any german designed tonearm.