At best, you could say that the thread:
-helped us recognize that many cables are perceived to be overpriced
-acknowledged (I think) that there are sonic differences among cables, but
-the high priced spread isn't necessarily always "the best" for some people.
It also helped us see that
-the subject of cables is a seemingly endless controversy, and one that won't likely be resolved soon, by this thread or otherwise, owing in part to the fact that the perceived results among cable seems to vary, depending on listener and system;
-that some folks who have higher priced cable that have chimed in here (not necessarily a good, representative sample of anything) don't feel ripped off by spending money on cables to achieve synergy with their systems, whereas
Dracula and perhaps a few others (I didn't have the energy to wade through it all again) have used "fancy" cable and concluded that they get better results from less expensive cable products.
There have been a few attempts to describe the science, but I'm not sure it adequately describes why different cables sound different or work more synergistically with some equipment than others.
Frankly, I'm always interested in opposing views. The sniping gets in the way of productive discussion, in my estimation. |
I think @almarg summed it up best in his post on 6-03-2016, referencing a post of his on another thread from 3-15-2016. As Al so eloquently put it:
Can everyone agree on most or all of the following, and then perhaps this less than constructive discussion can be concluded:
1)Wires
sound different, to a greater or lesser degree depending not only on
the wire but on the technical characteristics of what they are
connecting, their lengths, the AC voltage and noise characteristics at
the particular location in the case of power cords (at least), the
system, the room, the recording, and the listener.
2)For many
reasons, including synergy with the aforementioned variables, the
correlation between cable price and cable performance is significantly
less than 1.0 (i.e., significantly less than perfect).
3)Based in
part on a substantial body of anecdotal evidence that has accumulated
over the years, the correlation between cable price and cable
performance is significantly greater than 0.0 (i.e., significantly
greater than none).
4)It seems evident that some cables are
overpriced, one reason among several being that their prices are
determined in part based on what the market will bear. And it seems
evident that SOME segment of the market assumes a higher degree of
correlation between cable price and cable performance than is actually
the case, and that segment of the market will therefore pay higher
prices to achieve results that may (with sufficient experimentation) be
achievable at lower prices in their particular cases.
5)Additional
reasons that cables may in many cases be overpriced relative to the
benefit they are likely to provide (I’m quoting from myself in the
following thread from a couple of years ago; and pardon the redundancy
with some of the points mentioned above):
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/small-cable-companies-making-preposterous-claims
(a)As seems to be generally agreed by most audiophiles, cable performance is highly system dependent.
(b)From
a technical standpoint, it can be expected that cable performance will
vary significantly depending on the technical characteristics of the
components that are being connected, such as impedances. Even to the
point of a comparison between two cables yielding exactly opposite
results depending on what they are connecting. In past threads, such as this one,
I have cited examples of situations in which exactly that can be
expected to occur. [See especially both of the paragraphs in my post in
that thread dated 12-15-2012 which begin with "one interesting
example"].
(c)It seems to be generally agreed by most audiophiles
that cable performance cannot be either fully explained or fully
predicted based on generally recognized science. It follows from that,
however, that the cable designers have no way to accurately predict the
point of demarcation between optimization of a given cable parameter or
design characteristic and what may be overkill of that parameter or
design characteristic, which will accomplish nothing in most or all
applications. Therefore it can be expected that what is likely to be a
significant driver of the cost of many very expensive cables is overkill
of some or all of their design parameters and characteristics, which
will accomplish nothing in most or all applications.
6)It
can be expected that if SOME audiophiles whose cable experience has
focused disproportionately on the higher part of the price spectrum were
to give equal opportunity to a variety of cables at lower price points,
and experiment with such cables as extensively as they do with higher
priced cables, there is a significant chance that they may be able to
achieve performance comparable to what they have achieved at those
higher price points at significantly lower price points. A substantial
body of anecdotal evidence that has been reported here and elsewhere
supports that conclusion, for example the threads about vintage Western
Electric wires.
7)It can be expected that if SOME audiophiles
whose cable experience has focused disproportionately or entirely on the
lower part of the price spectrum were to focus on the higher part of
the price spectrum they might in some cases, depending in part on their
equipment, be surprised at how good the results are. A substantial body
of anecdotal evidence that has been reported here and elsewhere supports
that conclusion
8)Some audiophiles care more than others about
achieving the last 5 or 10 or 20% of the performance their components
are capable of. Some are satisfied with 80% and just want to listen to
music. Both approaches are equally valid.
9)Assertions that wire is just wire are erroneous, and that belief should not be promulgated.
10)Assertions
that more expensive necessarily = better are also erroneous, and that
belief should not be promulgated, by implication or otherwise.
11)Just
as not all audible differences are measurable, not all measurable
differences are audible. I say that in connection with measurable
differences that are presented in some marketing literature.
12)An
assertion that spending more on cables rather than less increases the
**probability** of achieving optimal results is arguably correct, but
pronouncements to that effect are not gospel. And opinions to the
contrary, if presented in a respectful manner, can and should be
discussed in a respectful manner.
Regards,
-- Al
Nothing more really needs to be said. It pretty much covers every cable debate, every time. |
Indeed it envelops everything.
Al is AudioGod. |
I love this one by Geoff,
Two, your contention that blind tests reveal that all expensive cables are no better than cheap cables is either your own puffery and untrue or if you have been involved in a blind test, which BTW I actually doubt, that produced negative results I suggest it is simply an outlier and can be thrown out.
Basically if if your test results aren't what I want them to be they are "an outlier" and can be thrown out. Too bad that doesn't work in court🙄
And by the way drac I don't think you should exclude coat hangers from your statement. They probably sound better than some 2k cables.
|
there are many expensive cables I do not like and many inexpensive ones I like very much, but I have never heard a $2k cable that didn't sound better than a coat hangar, regardless of metal used in the hangar... |
