Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

Great article here talking about subwoofer speed.
" Smaller woofers sound faster than larger woofers

One of the biggest myths about woofers is that smaller units like 8's and 10's sound "tighter" and "faster" than 15's or 18's. Even bigger drivers such as 21's and 24's are supposedly worse than 15's or 18's. This can be true in some specific cases, but as a blanket statement of all drivers this is factually incorrect.

This subjective impression is often caused by factors other than the simple size of the driver. What tends to happen is that the smaller drivers have a lower Qts because manufacturers tend to share one motor design across many different sizes of drivers in the series. They may have the same motor on the 10" driver that they have on the 15 or 18". Unless the motor can compensate for the extra mass it has to push, then the Qts will not be the same as the smaller drivers. Ultimately the larger driver may not be suited for the same kinds of alignments as the smaller driver and ends up requiring a much larger air volume for the same system "Q" and response shape. Typically the larger driver will end up in a higher "Q" undersized system with a less linear response shape that may cause it to sound more uneven or "one note". It may also end up being tuned much deeper in frequency and the increased low frequency output may also cause it to sound "slower" or "heavier". Smaller subs and those using smaller driver sizes are often not asked to go as low and will not have the same low frequency extension in their design. When comparing subs the one with more low frequency extension and output will sound quite different. Having said that, high Qts drivers are not inherently inferior sounding when compared to more efficient, highly damped drivers, but they require larger boxes and less internal pressure to prevent response peaking and increased group delay.

Large sub drivers can be made to have the same motor to cone ratio as smaller drivers. The larger woofers also have more room for bigger suspension components and voice coils which can allow higher power handling, more excursion capability and larger mechanical clearances that simply cannot fit on an 8 or 10" driver frame. It is more expensive to make larger driver sizes in this way, but not impossible. There are a number of good examples on the market. It's just a matter of picking the right driver for the job."


https://data-bass.com/#/articles/5cbf5e7357f7140004d6d0ec?_k=o4xuea

Indeed, great article. Josh Ricci knows of what he’s writing.

I’d go so far to say big subs aren’t only viable for 2-channel music, they’re wholly essential. The effortless quality of very large, preferably efficient subs means the cone(s) move very little, and it’s directly translatable into lower distortion and cleaner, more tuneful bass. Either you use a bunch of large diameter direct radiating drivers, or you horn-load a fewer number of them for what’s effectively a similar air radiation area, but a differently perceived bass presentation (one that I prefer, I might add, but to each their own).

I guess with regard to subs you could say: by and large, buy ’em large (and plenty of them) :)

Lol I like that phusis. I guess the only downside is if the large subwoofer doesn't have a motor powerful enough to control the driver as well as a smaller sub.

Hello phusis,

     Wow, I was a bit surprised that this thread is still continuing.
     I don't have any disagreements with anything stated in the linked article but think it may be a bit technical for some consumers to completely comprehend and apply the information usefully to their own buying and system building decisions.  I believe most consumers seeking better bass in their rooms/systems would prefer to purchase subs or bass systems that have intelligently incorporated the best and most relevant bass reproduction knowledge and technology into their products.
     My main point being that some consumers have taken the time and have the interest in knowing the details of how to attain very good bass performance in their domestic rooms and many, most?, don't and just want a simple and affordable solution.
     You, some others on this thread and I understand that getting good bass performance is more complex than just plopping down a sub in a convenient room location.  I think it's best if we keep things as simple as possible for this thread to be beneficial to the largest number of readers.
    For example, I think we agree that multiple subs will typically provide much better bass performance than a single sub in virtually any room and that 3 to 4 subs will generally provide even better bass performance.  A pair of well positioned, good quality subs is usually sufficient for achieving good bass performance at a single designated listening position and 3-4 subs are usually sufficient for achieving good bass performance throughout the entire room, which is important for HT setups with multiple listening positions.
     If consumers want very good bass performance throughout their entire room,  the Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra 4-sub distributed bass array complete kits for about $3K are a simple, relatively affordable and very high quality solution.  Here's an Absolute Sound review of the Swarm:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/

Tim

@noble100 --

Thanks for your follow-up.

I think we must careful not to make ourselves the judges on the level of ambition and complexity to dictate in this matter, but rather to relevantly pursue the subject of this thread to the fullest extend possible. At its core linked article by the OP simply tries to debunk a general assumption within audiophilia that larger drivers are slower sounding than smaller dittos, and indeed some perspective is given into this by Mr. Ricci. The general "math" behind it, as presented by him, isn’t that hairy, and in any case there’s the choice of going ground-up by yourself, or implement shared, existing knowledge in the form of actual, specific DIY designs. Or, you could simply buy pre-assembled, large subs and be done with it easily (not to take lightly proper integration/implementation) - they’re out there the likes of JTR, PSA, Deep Sea Sound, Funk Audio, Danley Sound Labs and others.

What is your reply other than to essentially advocate, or indeed advertise for a multi-sub set-up with smaller drivers? We know it works excellently, yes, but sorry - it’s not the primary relevance of this thread. The OP asked whether BIG subs are viable for 2-channel music, and they most certainly are while bringing to the table possible advantages few get to experience, because large size isn’t desirable or otherwise allowed for. Nothing holds anyone from going the DBA-route with big subs - now that would be awesome, and with proper designs it’s a win-win.

And yet, I’d go on to maintain the following: personally I’d rather have two symmetrically placed, very big and efficient subs vs. 4 small-ish lower efficiency subs in a Distributed Array. It’s what I have (2 BIG subs), and have very deliberately chosen. Would I want two more of them? Hell yes, if space and economy allowed, which unfortunately it doesn’t at the moment. As is though it’s a treat, and it would take something like 2x ported dual 18"-loaded subs to equate a pair of 15"-loaded tapped horn subs that I use. It’s not bragging; it’s underlining the importance of headroom and sheer air displacement capacity, and what it does to the bass presentation and how it integrates with the mains.