Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

@noble100 --

Thanks for your follow-up.

I think we must careful not to make ourselves the judges on the level of ambition and complexity to dictate in this matter, but rather to relevantly pursue the subject of this thread to the fullest extend possible. At its core linked article by the OP simply tries to debunk a general assumption within audiophilia that larger drivers are slower sounding than smaller dittos, and indeed some perspective is given into this by Mr. Ricci. The general "math" behind it, as presented by him, isn’t that hairy, and in any case there’s the choice of going ground-up by yourself, or implement shared, existing knowledge in the form of actual, specific DIY designs. Or, you could simply buy pre-assembled, large subs and be done with it easily (not to take lightly proper integration/implementation) - they’re out there the likes of JTR, PSA, Deep Sea Sound, Funk Audio, Danley Sound Labs and others.

What is your reply other than to essentially advocate, or indeed advertise for a multi-sub set-up with smaller drivers? We know it works excellently, yes, but sorry - it’s not the primary relevance of this thread. The OP asked whether BIG subs are viable for 2-channel music, and they most certainly are while bringing to the table possible advantages few get to experience, because large size isn’t desirable or otherwise allowed for. Nothing holds anyone from going the DBA-route with big subs - now that would be awesome, and with proper designs it’s a win-win.

And yet, I’d go on to maintain the following: personally I’d rather have two symmetrically placed, very big and efficient subs vs. 4 small-ish lower efficiency subs in a Distributed Array. It’s what I have (2 BIG subs), and have very deliberately chosen. Would I want two more of them? Hell yes, if space and economy allowed, which unfortunately it doesn’t at the moment. As is though it’s a treat, and it would take something like 2x ported dual 18"-loaded subs to equate a pair of 15"-loaded tapped horn subs that I use. It’s not bragging; it’s underlining the importance of headroom and sheer air displacement capacity, and what it does to the bass presentation and how it integrates with the mains.

Phusis ya I am thinking quad 18s spread around the room or maybe go insane with quad TV42 ipal or  PSA S72Ipal LOL.

To boil it down, properly designed larger subs are just as fast as smaller ones. You can see thi is their frequency response curves. The larger driver will have less distortion because it does not have to move as far to produce the same volume. Unfortunately the larger driver will require a larger enclosure and their is the trade off. Distortion vs Size. My approach has always been to take the smallest driver that will take you down where you want to go and use them in multiples to lower the distortion. With DSP and powerful amplifiers sealed enclosures are King. If you have DSP and can match the subs to the satellites in phase and time the absolute best place to put the subs for Hi Fi use is in the corners. If you want a really unified wavefront and fewer room interactions connect the subwoofers with more subwoofers every five feet. In my case with a 16 foot wall that would be 4 total. Since I cross over high at 125 Hz the subs are connected to their appropriate channels. If the drivers are closer together than 1/2 the wavelength of the highest frequency they are to reproduce they will act acoustically like one driver. So, since most bass is mixed mono I have a 16 foot subwoofer. Rock and Roll:)  

No crawling required.

phusis: " What is your reply other than to essentially advocate, or indeed advertise for a multi-sub set-up with smaller drivers? We know it works excellently, yes, but sorry - it’s not the primary relevance of this thread. The OP asked whether BIG subs are viable for 2-channel music, and they most certainly are while bringing to the table possible advantages few get to experience, because large size isn’t desirable or otherwise allowed for. Nothing holds anyone from going the DBA-route with big subs - now that would be awesome, and with proper designs it’s a win-win."

Hello phusis,

      Good points and fair enough.  It's obviously true that I highly recommend the AK Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA systems that use one smaller 10" driver in each of its relatively small sub cabinets, admittedly ad nauseum and unapologetically, mainly because it's proven to be so exceptionally effective in my own room/system, as well as numerous other A'gon members' rooms/systems, and because I know it's a reliable, relatively affordable and relatively simple method to attain near sota bass
performance, that's flat down to 20 Hz, in virtually any room and with virtually any pair of main speakers.  What's not to like, right?

     But I agree with you. let's just agree to concur on all that and rightfully focus on the OP's inquiry.  I get the impression from this thread that the OP, smodtactical, has learned quite a bit, and has done a considerable amount of research on his own, concerning the attainment of good bass performance through the use of subs and bass systems.  He also seems to have an admirably open mind as well as the courage, curiosity and spirit of adventure necessary to consider and explore various options.
     
     Contrary to apparently popular belief, I've always realized there's multiple methods of achieving very good and well integrated system bass performance besides simply buying and installing a complete AK Swarm or Debra DBA system. 
      In fact, I learned of the 4-sub distributed bass array concept before learning of it being sold in complete kit form by AK.
    At this point about 7 years ago, I had already proven to myself, through personal experimentation and experience, that very good bass performance could be achieved at my designated listening seat through the use of 2 good quality and precisely positioned subs.  I also learned that this dual sub concept was scalable, since larger subs performed equally well but just with greater bass impact and dynamics, and that there's no requirement that the subs utilized are the same brand, model, size or even type (sealed or ported).  I discovered combining a sealed sub with a ported sub works equally well and that the overall bass extension perceived extends to the depth of the sub with the deepest rated bass extension, which is almost always the ported sub.
      I was originally intending to create a custom 4-sub DBA for my combination 2-ch music and HT system using a pair of the JL F112 subs with a 12" driver each and a pair of the JL F110 subs with a 10" driver each. 
     But then I learned about the AK Swarm complete kit DBA for $2,800 and started noodling . My custom JL DBA  would cost about $15,000 at the time 5 years ago:

- Sure, the custom JL DBA would likely go a bit deeper than the AK DBA's 20 Hz, but how deep did I need? 
- I'm not a bass-head at all and much prefer high quality bass. 
- Besides, I don't think there's much if any available music or HT source material that has content below about 20 Hz.
-With a custom DBA, I'd need to optimally adjust the level, crossover frequency and phase controls on all 4 subs individually.  On the AK DBA, I'd only need to optimally adjust these three controls once on the supplied amp/control unit for all four subs and the bass system as a whole.
- It'd be a lot easier accommodating the four AK DBA's 1'x1'x28" subs in our living room than four larger subs.
- Hmm, I could save over $12,000, get near sota bass performance down to a flat 20 Hz and it'd be simpler to optimally setup?

     Long story short...ish, I bought the AK complete kit and it's exceeded my expectations plus made me smile for over 5 years thus far.
     From what I've read and experienced however, I still think smodtactical's idea of using 4 large subs,in a DBA configuration for music and HT would likely perform very well.  But I suspect a combo pair of larger and smaller subs, or an AK DBA, would probably perform at least as well. 
      I think his bass preferences and his budget wll, and should be, the key factors in his choice.

Tim