2. digital
  3. 192710-196145

ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT

Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc..  but that is not rocket science.

So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.

I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.

So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.

I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.

Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.

Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best  performance.

So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.

Play gentle with the pile on please....................

nubiann
devinplombier
244 posts
 

@soix ​​​​​​ @russbutton

You are both correct.

Streamers are nothing but computers, and often not very good ones (think Raspberry Pi 4 or 5) unless you’re in the mood for something like a $31,000 Taiko Extreme which, besides being an exquisite piece of kit, packs serious computing horsepower.

To @soix ’s point, quality power supplies, galvanic isolation, clocks, etc. do make a difference, and they should all be part of any serious audio PC build. The aforementioned Lucas Audio does just that for you, but by the time you’re done with him you’ll have spent near-Taiko money. You can also build it yourself; if so, expect to spend in the neighborhood of $4-5k on quality components.

But those of you who once used a mac mini or some such in your digital chain and then come here to denigrate PC network streamers on the basis of your one (admittedly dismal) experience, it’s like saying you drove a Nissan Leaf back in 2010 and it sucked, therefore all electric cars suck. Teslas don’t suck, neither do Lucids, and a $50 Raspberry Pi build will better a mac in terms of sound quality.

So I think it's time to give PC streamers their due. Done properly, they will rival the SQ of anything Aurender or Innuos make, plus they will give you unmatched software flexibility, upgradeability, and power.

russbutton's avatar
russbutton
437 posts
 

@soix Bits is bits.  Thatʻs the beauty of digital audio.  At the very lowest level of computing, all machines do is:

  • copy data from one register to another
  • compare data between two different registers
  • add data from one register to another and write out the result.

Everything a computer does is a combination of those three operations.  The ability to copy data from one place to another with 100% accuracy is the hallmark of computing.  If you canʻt trust a machine to do that, you should be very, very worried about your bank account.

 

When you stream music data from Qoboz, or whoever your source is, those bits are copied at least a dozen times between devices, routers, etc, over wired and fibre links (none of which are "Audiophile grade"), each and every time with 100% accuracy.  Once those bits get to your streamer, they get copied and moved around 3 or 4 times more before they go down the wire to your DAC or such.   And then you tell me that somehow, at the very last few inches of wire, the data transfer is NOT 100% accurate?

 

wyoboy
277 posts
 

@nubiann I'm with the crowd here that says DAC is far more important--clockwise, power supply-wise, galvanic isolation wise--everything-wise.  If you use Roon, Roon's own streamer the Nucleus or Nucleus + is excellent.

@russbutton +1

newton_john's avatar
newton_john
22 posts
 

A couple of years ago, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to compare Linn’s Next Generation DSM/3 streamer (2020/21 variant) and Klimax Organik Exaktbox DACs (2021) with previous models, the Klimax DSM/1 (2014) and Klimax Katalyst Exaktbox (2017).

What I found was that both the new streamer and DAC brought about significant improvements. However, they did different things.

The new DAC gave a smoother refined sound that was more pleasing to listen to. The new streamer gave the impression of being more rhythmic and musical.

In my opinion, the improvement from the new streamer was more fundamental and worthwhile. I should say that not everybody agreed with my view and some preferred the DAC.

ddafoe
256 posts
 

@russbutton, have you ever tried different streamers to see if you hear a difference in your system?   

Like you, I also believe bits are bits, but I also have tried a couple streamers and other tweaks (LPS vs switching power supplies, fiber vs copper, etc.) and ultimately use my ears to decide if I can detect a difference.

Sometimes the more expensive piece wins and I keep it, sometimes the cheaper piece wins and I sell the expensive piece.   I'm certainly glad I didn't let that belief prevent me from experimenting with my digital front end and ultimately improving it for at least my ears & system without spending a fortune to do it.  e.g. I no longer use a custom Pi based SPDIF streamer for my primary system even though I was extremely happy with it.  I have found something that sounds much better to me, even though I believe the Pi was passing the bits along just fine...

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