AV Receiver good enough for high end audio?

There are two receivers I've owned that I deem "good enuf" to operate as a stand alone audio system. While I only used them in my HT, had I the desire, or half a brain that didn't have to have more expensive gear, both of those receivers would serve a NORMAL person more than adequately.

Those receivers were:

Sunfire Ultimate Receiver II

B&K Ref 507 S2

The Sunfire, having the better amplifier of the two, I could have lived with very easily. It's essentially has the same preamp used in their stand alone preamp. It has a DIRECT mode that bypasses unnecessary circuitry that is quite good. It's the first audiophile quality receiver I'd experienced that could be dubbed audiophile quality. It even had an excellent phono stage! It sold new for $5k back in '05. To think I snagged that one for sale at $675 was a very nice bargain.

The B&K I acquired off Craig's simply because it was a good buy. It too having 7 channels of amplification would serve any 'normal' person well. Those of us with THE disease of course can't get past the idea of having one box do it all. But if I was stranded on an island with Raquel Welch and a lowly Sunfire Ultimate I could be quite content.

These pop up on eBay at great buys, and one could do well to grab them when they do for they typically sell for the going price of a stand alone 5 channel Cinema Grand.

I'm gunna be the first here to state that neither the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver II, the B&K Ref 507 S2, nor the Arcam 350, and similar ARE NOT high end audio!
Let's not loose sight here that, as nice as these pieces may be overall for sonic dubties, these are AV receivers, and not hi-end essoteric, ultra-refined pieces of audio equipment! No, not "hi-end"...fer the record. Yor Sunfire is not going to replace a world class preamp or amplifier, not by any strech. Nice try, though.

"But if I was stranded on an island with Raquel Welch and a lowly Sunfire Ultimate I could be quite content." (Coltrane1)

As nice looking as Raquel may have stayed over the years, you surely will need that Sunfire Ultimate receiver around to drown out all the cackling and complaining she'll undoubtedly be pounding your ears with, because she's stuck on some desolate island without a Tiffany's or Sachs to shop at!!
Come on, you gotta know I'm at least right on this point. lol

Queefee,

Sorting through the double negative (neither are not) and the use of "neither" for more than two choices, I assume from the rest of your 10/24/10 post that you don't consider the receivers in question suitable for use in a high-end system because they are neither esoteric nor expensive. Is that assumption correct?

db

i agree with much of the foregoing--as hifihvn's data evidences, most mass-market avrs have wussy amp sections with woefully overhyped power ratings which won't effectively drive audiophile-grade speakers. (in fairness, i do think hk and nad are considerably better than their peers in this regard). when you get to the more rarified air of b&k, arcam, krell etc. (can't speak to sunfire), the ground rules are different--their amps are really good and, i believe, they use substantially the same components as their well-regarded separates. it's not clear whether the skeptics have actually compared them to similarly spec'ed separates--not expensive tubes or $15k worth of elite megawatt gear, but $5k worth of reasonably powered ss gear. i keep returning to the arcam avr500/600 which, at least in 2ch mode, puts out a legitimate 120w/ch and purports to be stable down to 2 ohms. from what i heard, it sounded very "high-end" paired with the type of speakers that most people would pair with $5k worth of electronics. granted, it wouldn't be the choice of someone looking to pair his $50k wilsons, but i sense that a discriminating listener playing in a more attainable realm would be very satisfied.

It always amazes me how Queefee's type spouts on and on about the merits of a component without having heard it or set eyes upon a component in question. Whatever! You've missed the point, which was can a receiver's output be good enough to justify replacing hi end separates. In the case of the Sunfire Ultimate, I've owned one before, while at the same time owning separates i.e., BAT's flagship VK1000 mono's and a VK51SE costing thousands more than the Sunfire, and the Ultimate's performance was good enuf to make me question why the heck do I have thousands more invested in this hobby if this receiver can perform this good?

I rest my case...which is supported far more than merely having read some reviewers dribbled remarks from some stereo magazine and now thinking I'm somehow now qualified to pass judgement on a given component of which I've no hands on experience.