AV Receiver good enough for high end audio?

Queefee,

Sorting through the double negative (neither are not) and the use of "neither" for more than two choices, I assume from the rest of your 10/24/10 post that you don't consider the receivers in question suitable for use in a high-end system because they are neither esoteric nor expensive. Is that assumption correct?

db

i agree with much of the foregoing--as hifihvn's data evidences, most mass-market avrs have wussy amp sections with woefully overhyped power ratings which won't effectively drive audiophile-grade speakers. (in fairness, i do think hk and nad are considerably better than their peers in this regard). when you get to the more rarified air of b&k, arcam, krell etc. (can't speak to sunfire), the ground rules are different--their amps are really good and, i believe, they use substantially the same components as their well-regarded separates. it's not clear whether the skeptics have actually compared them to similarly spec'ed separates--not expensive tubes or $15k worth of elite megawatt gear, but $5k worth of reasonably powered ss gear. i keep returning to the arcam avr500/600 which, at least in 2ch mode, puts out a legitimate 120w/ch and purports to be stable down to 2 ohms. from what i heard, it sounded very "high-end" paired with the type of speakers that most people would pair with $5k worth of electronics. granted, it wouldn't be the choice of someone looking to pair his $50k wilsons, but i sense that a discriminating listener playing in a more attainable realm would be very satisfied.

It always amazes me how Queefee's type spouts on and on about the merits of a component without having heard it or set eyes upon a component in question. Whatever! You've missed the point, which was can a receiver's output be good enough to justify replacing hi end separates. In the case of the Sunfire Ultimate, I've owned one before, while at the same time owning separates i.e., BAT's flagship VK1000 mono's and a VK51SE costing thousands more than the Sunfire, and the Ultimate's performance was good enuf to make me question why the heck do I have thousands more invested in this hobby if this receiver can perform this good?

I rest my case...which is supported far more than merely having read some reviewers dribbled remarks from some stereo magazine and now thinking I'm somehow now qualified to pass judgement on a given component of which I've no hands on experience.

I wonder if its a good time to invest in a B&W. [http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1287610844&read&keyw&zzb&k]

Sounds like Sunfire chokes on power also.[http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content/sunfire-ultimate-ii-av-receiver-measurements]