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Better Cartridge/Turntable advice for old-school Hip Hop music

Hi Audiogon forums,

I’m Kevin and even though I have been a long-time reader, this is my first post and you guys would probably squinty your eyes looking at the title. 

I recently upgrade my turntable and was quite disappointed with the way the new system sounds, and how inexperienced I am in choosing a table/cartridge combo that does not suit my music genre, so I really look forward for your input to help me improve my system. Here is my system profile:

  • - Vintage Thorens TD125 Long-Base with 12-inch Jelco 850L arm & Audio Technica VM760SLC MM Cart – Table has been fully serviced by Dave @VinylNirvana so it is working correctly. 
  • - Joseph Bookshelf Speaker RM7XL
  • - Rogue Audio Magnum 1st generation
  • - EAR 834 P Phono preamplifier
  • - REL Sentor II Sub-woofer 
  • - Speaker/IC/ power cable are in either Cardas Golden Preference or Cardas Clear

TLDR My problem: after upgrading my modern Audio Technica LP7 (with stock cartridge) to the newer Thorens with ~10x more expensive cartridge, my Hiphop records sound less amusing. 

More specific on the problem: 

After paying almost $4k on upgrading the table, ALL my Hiphop records sound MUCH slower in speed, rapping vocal became less powerful, which I know for the genre, speed and power would be the 1st priority, hence in general the music became less intriguing. 

What has been improved is that general tonality, soundstage, are all became greater in terms of space, definition and clarity, instruments became much more musical and natural sounding. 

The new Thorens TD125 triumphed the old AT LP7 for all other genres: rock (Beatles, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Stones, RadioHead, etc.), soul (Isaac Hayes), jazz, funk, blues, etc… are all sounds so good for me at the moment. 

I’m truly satisfied when putting on these other genres but unfortunately, 70% of the time I would be listening to HipHop records (A Tribe Called Quest, Beastie Boys, De La Soul, Dr. Dre, Public Enemy, Gang Starr, Outkast, UGK, Wu Tang, Nas, Kanye West, you name it). P/s: I’m really into psychedelic, complex layering Hiphop records.

So, what should I do now? Where does the problem come from? I don’t know if a vintage table could not do well with more modern Hiphop music, or it’s solely because of my bad cartridge choice?

I still currently keep the AT LP7 to listen to Hip Hop, but I prefer to only keep 1 table due to space constrain. I still have a spare fund of around $1k to upgrade a better cartridge, but it MUST be able to rock my Hiphop beats better than the stock cartridge on the AT LP7.

Could you guy kindly advise me some solutions for my problem?

Thank you very much and take care!

Kevin



hoangkhoi1207
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
After paying almost $4k on upgrading the table, ALL my Hiphop records sound MUCH slower in speed, rapping vocal became less powerful, which I know for the genre, speed and power would be the 1st priority, hence in general the music became less intriguing. 

Hiphop becomes less intriguing. Haven't we all been there? But seriously, the answer is staring you in the face. Have you tried reading your post?

What has been improved is that general tonality, soundstage, are all became greater in terms of space, definition and clarity, instruments became much more musical and natural sounding.

The new Thorens TD125 triumphed the old AT LP7 for all other genres: rock (Beatles, Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Stones, RadioHead, etc.), soul (Isaac Hayes), jazz, funk, blues, etc… are all sounds so good for me at the moment.

I’m truly satisfied when putting on these other genres

So, logically, what we have here, it can be only one of two possibilities. Either you have found the one cartridge, tone arm, and turntable combination in all the world capable of making everything else but one specific genre of music sound bad, or you are in love with the one specific genre of music that is recorded really bad. 

Its one or the other. But my money is on you keep tilting at windmills.



knollbrent's avatar
knollbrent
525 posts
 
That’s an excellent analogy @millercarbon

@Kevin, the Thorens TD125 Long-Base  looks quite beautiful. The adjusted table might be telling you that some of these Hip Hop albums just aren't very good recordings as others have said. Still nice TT.
hoangkhoi1207 OP
9 posts
 
I think the write up of my post made you guys confused. Sorry about that.

As I wrote on the original post:

What has been improved is that general tonality, soundstage, are all became greater in terms of space, definition and clarity, instruments became much more musical and natural sounding. 

The audio quality has been vastly improved, even for hiphop. Not all hiphop records are recorded badly and to a certain extent I know which one has been recorded badly. I did my homework before buying which pressing of the records and some I bought multiple pressings to find out the best sound suitable for me.

The actual problem here, again as per my previous reply, is the RHYTHM, the beating pace, the characteristic of the music has became slow, less powerful, much more laid-back, relaxing that is not true to the spirit of the music. That is what I’m concerning about.

I have this issue before trying my friends’ amp (the Japanese Accuphase) on my system with the AT-7 and the music become much more relaxing and laid-back, after switching to my Rogue Amp the music is in a totally different characteristic, more power, fast and intriguing. Now I have the same problem with the new Thorens turntable.
dekay's avatar
dekay
5,564 posts
 
Agree with noromance:

Play around with VTA.

Only owned one 12" arm (SME) and though theoretically it should have been less "touchy" than the like 9" SME versions I also used/use - it wasn't.

DeKay
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,769 posts
 
Try the VTA adjustment. you may be surprised.
Did you add the Jelco after you got it serviced? If so, the suspension might need readjustment.
What is the turntable mounted on? Try adding a slab of marble or a sheet of glass underneath with metal or ceramic cones instead of rubber feet.

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