Bricasti M1 DAC vs PS Audio Direct Stream DAC


I own a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC that I like a lot but heard my friends system with the Bricasti M1 and I am strongly thinking of changing my DAC and would love your feedback from other members that have heard either or both. I know they are both great but really thinking of changing my Dac from PS Audio Direct Stream to the Bricasti M1 DAC. I use a HP Desk top computer as source with Jplay and JRiver Media 19 and the outstanding Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable. The rest of my system is below. I listen to Classic Rock, jazz, vocal, some modern music and the usual audiophile stuff.

Thanks

My system for reference.

Ascendo C-8 Renaissance Speakers (Germany) Monitor
Purist Audio Design Corvus Praesto Revision 2.5m Bi-Wire Speaker cable
Cardas Clear Interconnect 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Audio Research REFERENCE 1 w/Rhodium IEC/NOS Tubes Tube preamp
Decware ZSTAGE External Triode Output StageTelefunken ECC801S
PS Audio Direct Stream DSD DAC w/ Bridge DA converter
Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable
PS Audio PerfectWave PowerBase Vibration Cancelation/AC Condtioner
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 Mono's 140 Watts Tung-Sol KT120's amps
PS Audio PowerPlant Premier AC Regenerator
BMI Shark Pure Jeweler Grade Platinum AC Power Cable
Sablon Audio Petite Corona 2.0M AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series SE T1 AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series T1 AC Power Cable
PS Audio Noise Harvester (5) Converts noise to light
OYAIDE RI Beryllium Power Outlets (2)
Hubbell Outlet 5362/5262 Deep Cryo Process
Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula Industrial Surge/Spike Protection
JPLAY v5.2 hi-end audio player turns PC into a digital transport.
JRiver Media Center 19 Music Software
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xfsmithjack
Hi Fsmithjack, and others, happy owner of Bricasti M1 for two years now here.

I haven’t been reading a lot on this topic since I bought M1 a year ago, you guess, I was listening to music instead. I upgraded from Bryston BDA-1 and without going into any comments on price differences I would just say M1 put me in the different league. BDA-1 is fantastic DAC for money but I believe (to some extent) that you get what you pay for in the end. BDA-1 taught me one thing tough: I don’t like up-sampling! Since up-sampling feature can be engaged or bypassed on this DAC it didn’t took me long to find out that I always prefer not-up-sampled sound regardless of incoming sample rate. Yes, to me red book (16/44.1) sounds better if played ‘just as is’ without any up-sampling or conversion to DSD like many DACs do internally without even giving you the option to bypass. The fact that M1 doesn’t up-sample or convert but simply get the most out of the native incoming digital format was one of the major reasons I took Bricasti M1 into consideration after reading fantastic review in Stereophile magazine. My unit already came with new power supply and so far I upgraded firmware once to get DSD playback and that was it. I had pleasure to speak with Brian few times at audio shows and we exchanged few e-mails after and I can only say this is the best you can get in terms of customer support and responsiveness overall. Brian is very nice guy to deal with and responds in a matter of hours if not minutes if you have a question or need any help.

On sound I wouldn’t repeat what others already sad but I can say M1 brought me closest to the sound of original studio master, analog or digital regardless…Having worked for some years in music recording industry I was happy enough to hear how ‘original masters’ or ‘live feed’ sounds so I could compare.

I also transferred my vinyl collection to PCM 24/192 format on Tascam DVR-1000 Master Digital Recorder and was surprised when I played these recording first time on M1. Finally difference between original analog sound from turntable and digital copy disappeared. With BDA-1 digital copy sounded very good but it was always ‘something’ that was missing, funny thing is that you can notice this first by focusing on vinyl anomalies like clicks and pops which were slightly muffled and slow comparing to analog signal from turntable. I think M1 does fantastic job recreating timing so transients and everything else sounds just natural.

And since nothing is perfect here is my question to everyone reading this thread:

DSD reproduction??? What is your experience with DSD files playing through M1? I admit I didn’t read all postings in this tread but in the most of I’ve read I didn’t find single comment on DSD sound through M1?! I’ve been puzzled since we’re comparing M1 to PS Audio DSD DAC which in essence is DSD machine and if I’m not mistaken all audio regardless of sampling rate is up-sampled to DSD first and then decoded to analog. It’s kind of strange no one is mentioning this that should’ve been natural strength of PS Audio DAC?!

I’m asking this since I feel DSD files don’t sound as good as PCM on M1. To be clear the best DSD (SACD) I’ve heard so far in my home is from Esoteric DV-50 universal player which I sold when I bought OPPO BDP-105. I thought OPPO will do everything as Esoteric + Blue Ray but in terms of DSD reproduction it never sounded as good as Esoteric. Then I thought I’m expecting $1100 player to sound like $7000 one which is not correct so M1 will fix that. I ripped all my SACDs using PS3 station to DSD files but it couldn’t match Esoteric either.

Simply, M1 and OPPO DSD reproduction sounds too mellow, it doesn’t have a bite and live flesh I’ve used to hear from Esoteric DV-50. Going from DSD 2 to DSD 0 filters in M1 slightly improve experience but nothing significant. SACD played through Esoteric sounded full bodied, extremely fast with top notch transient response and lifelike dynamics while M1 and OPPO give me decent sound to listen to but sometimes I feel it’s even better to listen to CD layer from SACD disc because it sounds faster and more relax then SACD. Possible reason could be that M1 internally converts DSD to PCM before decoding and OPPO is doing the same?! PC Audio does exactly vice versa, converting PCM to DSD before decoding so I would expect it to sound better with native DSD files? Anyone that can comment on this?

To be clear even if this is drawback of M1 I would still keep it considering as minor flaw since the way it’s does PCM is much more important to me, I have maybe 5% of my music in DSD format but I want to hear from other M1 owners if they noticed the same?

However I would like to know if there is any DAC in the market that does PCM and DSD in native manner, all the way through, without converting from one to another format and of course doesn’t cost arm and leg?:).

My system:

1. Customized Zuma design finless PC / SOtM tX-USBexp Audiophile PCIe to USB Audio Card / SOtM mBPS-d2s Intelligent Battery Power Supply / Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable
2. JRiver Media Center 19 (Playback from Memory, dsd over pcm dop)
3. Bricasti M1
4. Mark Levinson No.326S Pre-amplifier (0 dB gain set internally, preamp acts only as buffer as I’m using it’s analog ladder volume control instead of using M1 digital one). Besides I have other analog source components (turntable, Tuner, DSD analog playback from OPPO and Tascam) so I need preamp in my system.
5. Mark Levinson No.436 mono-block power amplifiers
6. Revel Ultima Salon2 loudspeakers
7. Audience Au24e Speaker cables (Bi-Wire)
04-17-15: Neno

Welcome and thanks for all the great info. A couple of quick things. I don't have a lot of time but on these:

" Simply, M1 and OPPO DSD reproduction sounds too mellow, it doesn't have a bite and live flesh I’ve used to hear from Esoteric DV-50 "

This is not a matter of the M1 not sounding as good or vs the DV-50 but the Oppo as a transport vs the DV-50 transport. If you used a DV-50 as a transport with a consummate (expensive / high quality coax cable) to M1 and compared that sound to the internal DACs in the DV-50 you would get a real feel for the difference in the DACs because the M1 can't be asked to make up for the lack of premium transport that DV-50 offers as compared to the oppo. The transport really matter as I have learned more about int he post. You were exactly right when you said "I’m expecting $1100 player to sound like $7000". The problem there is in the transport and coax not the DAC's in the M1.

Second

"I’m not mistaken all audio regardless of sampling rate is up-sampled to DSD first and then decoded to analog. It’s kind of strange no one is mentioning this that should’ve been natural strength of PS Audio DAC?"

The reason its not being mentioned as a strength is because in the end its about how it sounds. How ever this cat gets skinned in the end if one sounds better it doesn't really matter if one company claims some way of going about it is better if another implementation sound better than that's were the buck stops. Plus the M1 has so many more resources as it cost so much more that they can focus on those critical area of power supply, output stage, filtering, etc.

Also,

" I don’t like up-sampling"

" The fact that M1 doesn’t up-sample or convert but simply get the most out of the native incoming digital format was one of the major reasons I took Bricasti M1 into consideration after reading fantastic review in Stereophile magazine"

Sorry don't mean to bum you out but the M1 think this is working different than you hoped...

M1 D/A Conversion: 24 bit delta sigma 8x oversampling.

From M1 Manual:

Pressing STATUS a second time will take you to a display of the actual output sample rate. In most cases this will be 352.8k as this is 8 x 44.1k of the CD sample rate. If the source is DSD then 2.822 or 5.644 Mhz will be displayed.

Note: The the M1 uses delta sigma 8 x oversampling conversion so it is not recommended to “up-sample” the digital audio that is being sent to the M1. Defeat all up-sampling features in your media player or CD transport. Up-sampling the data before the M1 will yield poor results and always use the original source audio bit and sample rates, so for example if the source is 44.1k then send this data unprocessed to the M1and let the M1 reconstruct the data correctly

Thanks for joining us chatt! Great system also !!!
Neno,

Other than when listening to DSD files in DOP when listening to just PCM the M1 says you should just send the signal unchanged.

So when just listening to PCM if you are sending dsd over pcm dop in MediaCenter 19 you might want to try switching from DSD in drop down to none and sending it regular and untouched and see how it sounds. I like it better myself and thought you might like it. Especially if you don't like the up sample...Do you use any DSP in JRiver? Thanks
04-18-15: Shsohis

Hello,

How are you?

I like to try them but here are the filters: Not sure how it will look when I copy paste but I have been liking Linear 8 or Minimum 1. Going back between these two,

For filters 0-5 this chart is accurate for both Linear Phase and Minimum Phase filters.. The 6 Minimum phase filters have the same characteristics as the linear phase filters of the same number, allowing easy comparison between filter types. As an example, Linear 2 has the same basic frequency response characteristics as Minimum 2 but they are based on a different filter construction techniques and yield different results. Filter types 6-8 are only available as linear phase. For simplicity and as a general guide to their characteristics, the list below lists filter # but in the M1 menu they are called out as Minimum and Linear.
 Filter 0 - 20kHz bandwidth, Stop-band at Nyquist frequency with low ripple and high attenuation
 Filter 1 - Low delay filter with full attenuation at Nyquist Frequency
 Filter 2 –Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 19.5kHz
 Filter 3 - Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 19kHz
 Filter 4 - Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 18.5kHz
 Filter 5 – Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 18kHz
 Filter 6 - A halfband type filter with 6dB attenuation at Nyquist frequency
 Filter 7 - Similar to 0 with a slightly gentler slope filter at 19k
 Filter 8 - Steepest slope, highest bandwidth, with low ripple and high attenuation