Bricasti M1 DAC vs PS Audio Direct Stream DAC

04-17-15: Neno

Welcome and thanks for all the great info. A couple of quick things. I don't have a lot of time but on these:

" Simply, M1 and OPPO DSD reproduction sounds too mellow, it doesn't have a bite and live flesh I’ve used to hear from Esoteric DV-50 "

This is not a matter of the M1 not sounding as good or vs the DV-50 but the Oppo as a transport vs the DV-50 transport. If you used a DV-50 as a transport with a consummate (expensive / high quality coax cable) to M1 and compared that sound to the internal DACs in the DV-50 you would get a real feel for the difference in the DACs because the M1 can't be asked to make up for the lack of premium transport that DV-50 offers as compared to the oppo. The transport really matter as I have learned more about int he post. You were exactly right when you said "I’m expecting $1100 player to sound like $7000". The problem there is in the transport and coax not the DAC's in the M1.

Second

"I’m not mistaken all audio regardless of sampling rate is up-sampled to DSD first and then decoded to analog. It’s kind of strange no one is mentioning this that should’ve been natural strength of PS Audio DAC?"

The reason its not being mentioned as a strength is because in the end its about how it sounds. How ever this cat gets skinned in the end if one sounds better it doesn't really matter if one company claims some way of going about it is better if another implementation sound better than that's were the buck stops. Plus the M1 has so many more resources as it cost so much more that they can focus on those critical area of power supply, output stage, filtering, etc.

Also,

" I don’t like up-sampling"

" The fact that M1 doesn’t up-sample or convert but simply get the most out of the native incoming digital format was one of the major reasons I took Bricasti M1 into consideration after reading fantastic review in Stereophile magazine"

Sorry don't mean to bum you out but the M1 think this is working different than you hoped...

M1 D/A Conversion: 24 bit delta sigma 8x oversampling.

From M1 Manual:

Pressing STATUS a second time will take you to a display of the actual output sample rate. In most cases this will be 352.8k as this is 8 x 44.1k of the CD sample rate. If the source is DSD then 2.822 or 5.644 Mhz will be displayed.

Note: The the M1 uses delta sigma 8 x oversampling conversion so it is not recommended to “up-sample” the digital audio that is being sent to the M1. Defeat all up-sampling features in your media player or CD transport. Up-sampling the data before the M1 will yield poor results and always use the original source audio bit and sample rates, so for example if the source is 44.1k then send this data unprocessed to the M1and let the M1 reconstruct the data correctly

Thanks for joining us chatt! Great system also !!!

Neno,

Other than when listening to DSD files in DOP when listening to just PCM the M1 says you should just send the signal unchanged.

So when just listening to PCM if you are sending dsd over pcm dop in MediaCenter 19 you might want to try switching from DSD in drop down to none and sending it regular and untouched and see how it sounds. I like it better myself and thought you might like it. Especially if you don't like the up sample...Do you use any DSP in JRiver? Thanks

04-18-15: Shsohis

Hello,

How are you?

I like to try them but here are the filters: Not sure how it will look when I copy paste but I have been liking Linear 8 or Minimum 1. Going back between these two,

For filters 0-5 this chart is accurate for both Linear Phase and Minimum Phase filters.. The 6 Minimum phase filters have the same characteristics as the linear phase filters of the same number, allowing easy comparison between filter types. As an example, Linear 2 has the same basic frequency response characteristics as Minimum 2 but they are based on a different filter construction techniques and yield different results. Filter types 6-8 are only available as linear phase. For simplicity and as a general guide to their characteristics, the list below lists filter # but in the M1 menu they are called out as Minimum and Linear.
 Filter 0 - 20kHz bandwidth, Stop-band at Nyquist frequency with low ripple and high attenuation
 Filter 1 - Low delay filter with full attenuation at Nyquist Frequency
 Filter 2 –Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 19.5kHz
 Filter 3 - Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 19kHz
 Filter 4 - Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 18.5kHz
 Filter 5 – Same as # 1 with a gentler slope and the passband at 18kHz
 Filter 6 - A halfband type filter with 6dB attenuation at Nyquist frequency
 Filter 7 - Similar to 0 with a slightly gentler slope filter at 19k
 Filter 8 - Steepest slope, highest bandwidth, with low ripple and high attenuation

If you don't like upsampling then you should try a NOS DAC instead.

Fsmithjack,

Let’s not mix up-sampling with oversampling. Oversampling is always performed in synchronous mode and keeps original signal intact, at least every 8th sample (8x oversampling) will be original.

Up-sampling is in most cases implemented in asynchronous mode where resulting signal doesn’t contain any of original samples but only mathematically interpolated samples.

Oversampling only adds values with approximation, the originals are unchanged.

Regarding DSD comparison, you can’t send DSD signal from either OPPO or Esoteric through SPDIF connection. OPPO can do that through HDMI but DAC with HDMI input is needed. My comparison refers to sound coming out of balanced XLR analog outputs of Esoteric and OPPO when SACD played comparing to DSD file ripped from the same SACD and played from JRiver over Dop to M1 usb input. And while I certainly agree that Esoteric has far superior transport than OPPO that shouldn’t be the reason SACD is sounding better. For example I always preferred regular CDs and DVD-A ripped to wav files and played from PC through USB/M1 comparing to sound coming from Esoteric transport over the SPDIF. So, I’m quite sure it’s about decoding of DSD signal itself because experience with PCM material is opposite and same transport is used.

For DSP in JRiver I don’t use anything except stereo mix-down to 2ch for movies which shouldn’t affect regular stereo signals. I’ll try suggestions you mentioned but this means that DSD will be converted to PCM in JRiver internally and sent to M1 as PCM correct? So looks like we’re comparing who does better job converting DSD to PCM, M1 or JRiver?

Shsohis, I’m using DSD1 filter for DSD and Minimum0 for PCM. I played with filters for a week or so and settled down on these. Some of my friends prefer Linear6 in my system/room which is pretty much neutral. Filters are great feature on M1 and will be very useful to compensate for the overall sound of your system, so it really depends of system you have and your preferences for sound in general. Also you can smooth out not so great recordings if you will.