cable upgrades , real or rip off

here's something to really make you nuts-
i have upgraded transparent cable several times according to budget constraints, and each time i noticed an incremental (pleasant) improvement in the sound. then 6 mo.ago i ordered the next level up which would have been ref-XL (w/MM technology), but due to some confusion the dealer got ref-MM instead. this error resulted in a complete transformation in the sound quality- a BIG improvement in bass, soundstage, layering of instruments, etc. we worked something out on the bill because there was no way i was going to send this wire back- the improvements were definitely at the level of replacing components. BUT, can i recommend that someone invest $19k for speaker cables? there's no way, unless $$$ is simply not an issue. but as far as the law of diminishing returns goes, in this case i experienced an exponential improvement instead, so go figure. i can only tell you what happened...

French_fries: I totally believe your report because I've had similar experiences myself, even with optical cables. But your description hints at something I'd actually be willing to bet money on: namely that you have a great system already (you don't reveal what it is) but if that were not true, those advances in performance might never have gotten to (through?) your speakers. (Was I right?)

Which is why I always caution people not to attempt to upgrade their cabling beyond the level of their components. Doing that won't improve the performance of the components, and the potential of the cables will be lost.

The flip side, is when one upgrades cable(s) (even by accident ;~) and major improvements result, then one can only conclude they'd underestimated the capabilities of their equipment, and NOT that the new cable added some kind of performance factor. Cables are just conduits. That's their only job. Some do it better than others.

Hi French_fries,
Great and tragic at the same time; great when a cable can bring you closer to the music, tragic when it costs $19k.
I've had similar experiences with Shunyata and Siltech. It wasn't until I climbed farther up the chain, than I thought would be reasonable, that I realized that exponential leap.

I'm selling my Purist Audio Dominus AES/EBU digital cable now. It is a very good cable, but I think the Wireworld Gold Starlight, which I also own (which cost much cheaper than the PAD!) has more PRaT and sounds more lively (less laid back). It is not so refined as the PAD, but to me more satisfying. This illustrates the relative importance of "better" cable with regard to sound quality.

Chris

I went through a cycle of investing heavily into cables, and deinvesting. I had a 10.000 usd value of cable system (Nordost valhalla ic and pc, eldrod pcs, siltech lsc). Now I had cables made of solid core copper leads as pc and ic and goertz veracity mi2. Their total cost is about 500 usd (new price). While I was building up my cable system, I always heard improvement which justified the horrible price for a meter or so cable. Now, I think, that maybe I lost some small fraction of frequency extension, but I have a tonally more right soundprint. There is no rule what you could establish, so much influenced this game by unkonwn factors, like personal taste, wealth, equippment-sinergy. None the less, I think, there is two rules important: 1) buy used always, and than you could easily get rid of cable which once you thought was the most important investment of your life. 2) What is important is to put the amplifier-loudspeaker synergy right for your expectations. Once that is right - at whatever price level - than you dont really need invest into cables. Cables is used - at least I used them - for shifting the tonal character of the system by emphasising treble, midrange, bass etc (what ever you percieve as a factor to need to make better), and rationalise as increase of resolution (which is to a certain extent, but maybe at the price of supressig other elements of music). One, you found the right sinergy between you speaker and amp, you dont need anymore such band aids. Still, if one has money still could buy nice audiophile cables ...