Can a Amp be "timeless" and compete with todays amps?

@fleschler 

Please correct me if you think amps should have both zero global and zero internal negative feedback

As wth nearly all things concerning audio it just depends. NFB will decrease the amplifier output impedance and increase damping factor.  For some speakers this will be beneficial.  There are speakers designed with the intention of being driven by  zero or very low NFB amplifiers. It will definitely depend on specific amp-speaker characteristics and appropriate matching compatibility. 

BTW I bet you modified amplifiers sound fantastic!

Charles 

There are certainly areas where significant improvements have been made over time. Anything in the digital realm, streaming, music storage etc.

Way back when I purchased (on sale) a Krell KST100 amplifier. It anchored many changes (upgrades attempted and upgrades achieved) upstream. After twenty plus years, some issues became apparent and I was faced with the dilemma of purchasing a new amp or servicing my Krell.

Looking at the market place, reading reviews and posts on websites (this one mainly) I called Krell. Had a brief discussion with a tech there who went over the ins and outs of bringing my KST to spec and resolving any problems they found.

The current marketplace for amplifiers that would deliver the the same or better attributes of the Krell would require quite a bit of money. At least what I paid for the Krell and quite a bit more than the cost of “refurbishing” it.

Luckily, especially given the original packaging was long gone, Krell is located less than an hour’s drive from me. I drove the amp up to Connecticut, the tech met me outside with a wheeled cart! The amp weighs around 45 pounds with sharp heat dissipation fins.

For around $1500 and a few weeks I had a like “new” 100 watt (measures 130) clean across the spectrum, the amp handles just about any speakers well, superb bass control (good slam factor).

The service at Krell is superb. The techs are enthusiastic helpful and a pleasure to deal with. I got good reasonable advice. 

I think the main advances in power amplifiers these days are size related with class D. Integration with pre amps and/or all sort of one box combinations. Was the Krell the last word in amplification? No. Even when new Krell made “bigger better” amps. The KST was actually their “dip” into the more “affordable” domaine…we are talking some $2750 back twenty five years ago! In today’s money?

In the end, considering price, the real question is personal. I am not sure moving over makes much sense. Moving up yes. So if you have a piece of gear you are happy with change for change’s sake doesn’t make sense to me especially in Audio.

The most important factor in a good audio system are the synergies among amplifier, speakers and room.

Finally. 
We audiophiles tend to get buried in the technology weeds. The key numbers/measurements for amplifiers are those that indicate how they will drive your speakers.(power, current, impedance etc etc etc).

The technology or design philosophy that achieves those numbers is at best secondary at worst a red herring. And really what counts is how it all sounds to you.

In the end, considering price, the real question is personal. I am not sure moving over makes much sense. Moving up yes. So if you have a piece of gear you are happy with change for change’s sake doesn’t make sense to me especially in Audio.

The most important factor in a good audio system are the synergies among amplifier, speakers and room.

Finally. 
We audiophiles tend to get buried in the technology weeds. The key numbers/measurements for amplifiers are those that indicate how they will drive your speakers.(power, current, impedance etc etc etc).

The technology or design philosophy that achieves those numbers is at best secondary at worst a red herring. And really what counts is how it all sounds to you.

 

Wise post.... Thanks....

If you are convinced that best amps can be measured, you most likely hit a goldmine of technical wisdom, although the term "smooth" might be not universal enough to define it. However, in my opinion, that is not even possible, especially because amps do not make sound on their own: the sound you hear exists in a relation to all component in the signal path.

I define 'smooth' as a lack of audible higher ordered harmonic distortion as per my prior posts to this thread. The idea that amplifiers do not make a sound of their own is false; we've been hearing these 'sounds' for the last 6 decades. Some amps are smooth and might be a bit soft in the bass, others do bass alright but are harsh in the highs. That this is so is well-known and not controversial.

I was reading through this thread and decided to post here what I had posted not too long ago on the SoundLab Owners Forum:

Audio Research VT-150SE mono amplifiers (1994) vs. Audio Research Reference 150SE stereo amplifier (2016).

"I recently purchased a Audio Research Reference 150SE stereo amplifier that uses eight (four per channel) of the (relatively new designed) KT-150 power tubes (150W pc) and the input tubes are four 6H30s.  All of the tubes are new and matched from Audio Research. Power supply energy storage: 1040 joules total for both of the channels.

The SL A3PX full-range electrostatic speakers sound excellent when driven by it using the 8 ohm taps.

Surprisingly or not, it is not “better” (whatever that means) than the two 1994 Audio Research VT-150SE mono amplifiers I’ve been using for the past twenty-five years on SoundLab speakers. I've been comparing them directly.

The VT-150SEs are rated at 130W pc and they use eight (four per channel/amplifier) of the 6550 power tubes (GE), eight 12BH7 drivers (four per amplifier) and four (two per amplifier) 6922 input tubes. It also uses tubes (two 6550s and a 12AX7) in the power supply regulation. Power supply energy storage: 420 joules for each channel/amplifier.

When comparing the VT-150SEs on SoundLab A3PX full-range ELS, the Reference 150SE tonal balance is slightly leaner (taut) upper bass and slightly more forward upper mid-range, using the 8 ohm taps on the amplifiers. Speakers are set flat (0) with treble at 12 o’clock position.