Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy

Volleyguy wrote: "It is those very Teflons that I am looking at... I am keeping the [Duelunds in the] speakers but am not sure about the amp."

When we ran most of the tests, the VSF was the only Duelund cap available and its size made it impractical to audition in our electronics. At some future time, I'd like to acquire small values of the newer Duelunds and see how they sound in active circuits, too.

"As far as for inductors would not foil resonate much more than wire if the insulation and structure could not hold the foil dead still?"

One would think that, but the proof is in the listening. That's why I always say keep an open mind and forget about preconceptions. Duelund abandoned the wire-wound, iron-core inductors in favor of foil, which they presumably think sounds better. Note that their foil inductors are highly damped and not loosely wound, though that's the way capacitors are fabricated, too. I'm referring back to Dave Slagle's argument that foil inductors that are built like capacitors should not sound as good as air-core, wire-wound inductors.

"Where the oil caps tested in a all oil circuit?"

We never tried that, but it's another variation that someone could explore.

"Steen did feel that he could hear plastic in the cap?"

That may be, but it never crossed our minds or came up as a topic for discussion. In other words, we never detected a "plastic" sound, just specific differences between different caps.

"I often wonder if SET movement has not been aided by the internet."

In the 1970s and 80s, when the commercial American audio scene evolved into acoustic suspension speakers driven by high powered solid state amps (like the Dyna 400, the Ampzilla, or the Phase Linears) and high-powered pentode amps (conrad-johnson and Audio Research), the SET movement was thriving in Japan. The Internet certainly accelerated the trend, though small journals like Sound Practices were important, too.

"Only in a non commercial enviroment can one find out that vintage Tannoy's can compete with speakers costing 50k."

What excites me about the Tannoy x-over project is that there is only one small value cap (about 1.5uF) directly in the signal path. This will open up a much wider range of candidates to test in speakers, including some of the silver foils which we just could not afford to purchase in a 10uF value. This should allow us to compare the various Duelunds, Audio Notes, Jensens, VCaps, REL Caps, and others, in a way that we were unable to do before.

Joe
Joe, which model Tannoy's are you referring to that only uses a 1.5uf in series with the HF unit? Most of the vintage drivers use anywhere from a 4uf to 6.8uf in series, with 1-2 parallel caps in the HF circuit. Some of their newer models with the Tulip waveguide only use a 2.4uf-2.7uf in series(1st order), but I'm not familiar with all the recent models.

Thanks,
Mike

It's a 15" 3859 dual-concentric which, in the mid-1980s, was originally sold in either the Panther or Cougar stage monitor cabinet. A variation was briefly (and unsuccessfully) marketed for home audio and my partner has come up with his own design, loosely based on the Monitor Gold x-overs.

The actual value in question can vary from 1.5uF to 2.2uF. It's run in parallel with a resistor and I believe that by varying the value of the resistor we can get the cap down to 1.5uF. While there is a resemblance in principle, it differs somewhat from the published Tannoy x-overs of that period.

Ultimately, we'll be applying what we learn to the Monitor Golds, as well.

Joe
I have often tried to describe what the Duelund caps do? They turn random sounds into instruments and clear sounds and real sounds at that.

The Duelund caps have made it quite easy to pick out how the music was recorded tubes or SS as well.

The other day listening to Miles Davis the drums don't just sound like drums but like a real SET of drums (at life size) over there in the corner. (I mean freaky real) My daughter has said "I am afraid to go in the basement Dad as I expect to walk around the corner and see people there!"

When listening to the White album tonight the song "I Will" I could not figure out what this one instrument was? So I had to turn the computer back on. I was frustrated what the heck was that? I find out it was Paul dum dumming the bass line.

http://www.upv.es/~ecabrera/white.html

One thing as a former Linnie is that Linn people believe Linn gear gives you a feel of a band playing together. I have to admit with the Duelund/tube amp the music will sound very accurate and real as instruments in space but not sense of everyone in the room together? I am not sure why I ever thought it was a band playing together as of course the music unless live is often laid down in tracks. Paul plays every instument on some of those songs so how could it sound like a band playing together? So if Linn makes it sound like a band playing together than that is just false. So all this clearness has changed my impression of songs. Where I once thought it was John singing and Paul on back-up (this being in my mind) you can clearly hear it is John on lead and John on back up.

This does not take away from the enjoyment you just are more aware that it was done in a studio.
VSF = lifelike tonality
CAST = lifelike tonality + huge soundstage and precise imaging

The difference was MUCH more subtle than expected.