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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
face
516 posts
 
Joe, which model Tannoy's are you referring to that only uses a 1.5uf in series with the HF unit? Most of the vintage drivers use anywhere from a 4uf to 6.8uf in series, with 1-2 parallel caps in the HF circuit. Some of their newer models with the Tulip waveguide only use a 2.4uf-2.7uf in series(1st order), but I'm not familiar with all the recent models.

Thanks,
Mike
tempoelectric's avatar
tempoelectric
14 posts
 

It's a 15" 3859 dual-concentric which, in the mid-1980s, was originally sold in either the Panther or Cougar stage monitor cabinet. A variation was briefly (and unsuccessfully) marketed for home audio and my partner has come up with his own design, loosely based on the Monitor Gold x-overs.

The actual value in question can vary from 1.5uF to 2.2uF. It's run in parallel with a resistor and I believe that by varying the value of the resistor we can get the cap down to 1.5uF. While there is a resemblance in principle, it differs somewhat from the published Tannoy x-overs of that period.

Ultimately, we'll be applying what we learn to the Monitor Golds, as well.

Joe
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I have often tried to describe what the Duelund caps do? They turn random sounds into instruments and clear sounds and real sounds at that.

The Duelund caps have made it quite easy to pick out how the music was recorded tubes or SS as well.

The other day listening to Miles Davis the drums don't just sound like drums but like a real SET of drums (at life size) over there in the corner. (I mean freaky real) My daughter has said "I am afraid to go in the basement Dad as I expect to walk around the corner and see people there!"

When listening to the White album tonight the song "I Will" I could not figure out what this one instrument was? So I had to turn the computer back on. I was frustrated what the heck was that? I find out it was Paul dum dumming the bass line.

http://www.upv.es/~ecabrera/white.html

One thing as a former Linnie is that Linn people believe Linn gear gives you a feel of a band playing together. I have to admit with the Duelund/tube amp the music will sound very accurate and real as instruments in space but not sense of everyone in the room together? I am not sure why I ever thought it was a band playing together as of course the music unless live is often laid down in tracks. Paul plays every instument on some of those songs so how could it sound like a band playing together? So if Linn makes it sound like a band playing together than that is just false. So all this clearness has changed my impression of songs. Where I once thought it was John singing and Paul on back-up (this being in my mind) you can clearly hear it is John on lead and John on back up.

This does not take away from the enjoyment you just are more aware that it was done in a studio.
face
516 posts
 
VSF = lifelike tonality
CAST = lifelike tonality + huge soundstage and precise imaging

The difference was MUCH more subtle than expected.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I agree totally Face. Like I had said in post when I first got the CAST there was so much difference I was almost confused.

After hearing the CAST (2 caps) vs. VSF (2 caps) in the tweeter caps in one speaker vs. the other I would consider upgrading to all CAST. (right now I am CAST to VSF) (which seems to work best)

That high pressure they use on CAST is surprising how much difference.

I just do not know is that same kind of difference apply to electronics with caps? That is why I have Jensen and VSF coming. If I get the amp to exactly what I expect to happen with caps I am looking at CAST for the critical locations and VSF and Jensen's (Copper tube) in the less critical.

Frederik can you give a hint where that would be? I expect the cap at the phono section? and pre amp?
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