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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Roxy54

I was a ticked man who did not know why my new gear could not touch this old stuff and I had to find out why? (personality trait or flaw) I don't subscribe to the vintage is better thing so I had to understand why? Foil caps with no plastic. Plastic permeates so much of most modern hi-fi. No doubt due to cost.

There is one major rock I did not overturn and that would be a SET amp. Also never went down the Silver wire or caps route. (just out of my league)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Retesting the CAST vs. VSF tweeter caps.

The CAST cut tweeter output by at least 50% in my mind compared to VSF. (two in each circuit)

Now is this all increased resonance in the VSF?

It would be nice to hear fom Duelund on this as this is huge difference. I was confused when I heard two CAST vs. two VSF before as I did not expect such a change? I am still shocked! Almost like a resistor in circuit? Duelund if I check ohms both caps will be the same?

Is all the extra VSF sound just resonance?

I have to agree with Steen even his VSF you can hear the tweeter cap all over the signal.

In my opinion skip the VSF in the tweeters and go for the CAST but you are going to get more bass from the less high freq.

Ait have you retested?

I am going to wire up the speakers for now though anyway and get back to finishing the amp or Duelund is going to have me broke!

The Jensen for anyone interested are a low res cap like the CAST lower then the VSF which is all about tone. The Jensen weakness is in the midrange not being as natural.

Next week I am ordering more Jensen and Duelund to finish project.
face
516 posts
 
I'm sure that's proprietary knowledge.

But I agree, I was also shocked at the difference between the two.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Well, I couldn't really ask clients to pay more for the CAST than the VSF, if the sound was the same...? :)

The difference between the CAST and the VSF is in the internal and external damping.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
After several days of listening I still feel the same as I did before. Two CAST might be too quiet and two VSF to noisy. So it is going to be CAST followed by VSF.

I have one poly cap left a Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oil that did not sell when I sold off the poly caps.

After several months I want to see if I still felt the same there as well. Was I being to harsh?

After only a few minutes most is still the same. Instruments lose their natural tone and this is even with all foil signal chain and one CAST tweeter cap followed by the Mundorf Silver in Oil. I will take back some of what I did say though. The balance is not off. The CAST tilts the sound down and the Silver in Oil back up so the balance is not bad. Like Tony says like cooking.

Still there is something about the way poly caps resonate they do not make natural sounds? I hear they test well on the S/N ratio and I believe they are very good on the noise part but not good on the signal.

I think Tony needs to test the Jensen Paper Copper tube as well. I think we will have #1,#2 and #3 right there.

Where the sound is at

The other day my mother was over and I had the music turned up (Norah Jones) and was upstairs. She could not believe what she was hearing. She knows nothing about this test and I do not say anything. She could care less about Audio (but is an amatuer singer) in general and thinks her Bose Wave Radio sounds as good as anything else she's heard with less fuss. She was beside herself with what she was hearing. She had to go downstairs to see/hear what that was. She is in her 60's and does not get like this over audio. (never) She could not believe it. She had never heard a tube all foil signal.
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