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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
michaelvv
52 posts
 
Duelund

Have your heard the V-Cap CuFT after a valid break-in time , properly 400+ hours.
We are 3 different persons here in Denmark who are doing it right now , not 400+ hours yet.
I would like to use your caps for my tannoy HPD-385a , but at the time i have saved up , your prices are properly raised again. Funny when i asked rabu-acoustics.dk they can not give me an exact price. What is the reason for that ???
k2_nl
13 posts
 
You're right about the price Michael. Since receiving some rave reviews, including on this site, prices have raised to incredible heights. A pity as the Duelunds no doubt are fine caps but IMO and IME the extra quality compared to that of other fine PIO copperfoil caps (and OTHER measures than caps, inductors and wire that can be taken in an audiosystem!!!) doesn't justify the very big difference in retailprice.

I don't know the Cu V-cap, however I've tested the tinfoil V-caps a few years ago and IMO they didn't held up with the standard Jensen PIO copperfoil cap. The difference was big. The tinfoils are fast and detailed but compared to the PIO copperfoils they sound "thin" / less musical. And this judgement came after at least 500 hours of playing in time.

I collected three early cost-no-object early Siltech hybrid poweramps that I've upgraded by a Dutch engineer called Peter van Willenswaard. He used to work for AudioNote UK and now has his own company Audiomagic. Peter is a BIG name with tubes in the Netherlands/Europe. His DAC for instance is a killer. Peter built up a lot of experience with upgrading AN DACs. So much that he decided to design his own DAC. This DAC, though costing about 1/20th of the most expensive AN DAC, performs in the same league as that AN DAC. No wonder it won the first price at a shoot out of the European Triode Festival some years ago.

I have asked Peter to test the tinfoil teflon V-Caps and the Cast Cu-foil Duelunds as I wanted to replace the old coupling caps in my hybrid poweramps by better ones, and these two companies received rave reviews a couple of years ago. A befriended audiocompany in the Netherlands ordered the Cast Cu-foil Duelunds from Frederik as the company was very interested in Peters opinion on the Duelund caps. The V Caps I ordered in the USA.

Peter put them to test in his own design preamp (position of the caps: coupling caps) and audiosystem. The judgement about the V-caps was quickly made. And even after 500 hours, its sound was still not okay in our experience. This became very painfully clear after replacing the V Caps by Jensen Cu-foils: the immediate improvement of the sound with the Jensens installed was SO big!

The Jensens went out and the Cast Duelunds were connected. A long time of playing in followed. Gradually, very gradually its sound got better and better until it performed a bit better than the standard Jensen PIO Copperfoil caps. After a few hundred hours the Duelunds were taken out and returned to the audiocompany...
They made place for the Jensen PIO Cu-foils in paper tube. The paper tube Jensens sounded already from the start significantly better (more detailed) than the standard Jensen PIO Cu foils... So my choice in the end was the paper tube Jensen.

I must admit that my Cast Duelunds belonged to the first badges produced by Duelund as in my first emails to Duelund, Frederik responded that the high voltage Cast caps didn't exist yet, but that they were working on it. Maybe in the later badges other dimensions/design and materials were used?

I'm very curious to your experiences with the Cufoil V-cap, especially how it performs compaired to its tinfoil sister or brother.

Kees
michaelvv
52 posts
 
Hi Kees , thanks for a great update on the caps magic. What do you think on this review http://jimmyauw.com/2010/08/16/battle-of-three-capacitors/ . I think in his opinion the duelund CAST is a lot better than the jensen you have testet.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
K2 Thank You!

I have stated many times in this thread that the Jensen Copper Paper Tube is very good! It is what I use as a standard reference. They seem unloved? (old news?) No one seems to care about them? People run out to buy other lesser caps?

I have tested Jensen against the VSF and like the VSF better the difference would depend on the system as to whether it is worth it? The VSF is clearly less muffled with better tonality. An excellent cap and the Jensen Copper Paper tube very good.

Another thing I have mentioned is how one cap in the chain throws things off. The first time I heard an all foil chain (all vintage) I went Holy Smokes! Real sounds! (high noise level but still REAL sounds)

Right now I have a VCap Cuft with two Duelund's in one side in the amp and all Jensen Copper Paper Tube in the other. The all Jensen sounds more dynamic than the VCap followed by two Duelund VSF's

The ENTIRE chain is Duelund except one VCap and it matters natural tones are not as good by changing out just ONE cap.

Where the Duelunds are better is in tonality, clarity then Jensens.

But they sound like the same family of caps.

I can not comment for sure on the VCaps as I am nowhere near the painful long 500 hours! One thing I love about good paper in oil caps is put them in today and things are better right away and then they improve.

That "thin" sound you talk about seems to come from the fast charge and discharge of Teflon. It is a more mechanical sound.

I have mentioned on here before that you can not have ANY poly or other types of caps to get the "full" effect of paper in oil. (some scoff at the idea) I had never heard full signal paper in oil till hearing all vintage. That is what started the thread.

So far my thoughts are Duelund in large value and Jensen in small value just for cost reasons.

I feel (and have said before) Jensen Copper Paper tube is the "lowest" (if one calls that low) I would want to see in the signal path.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Michael,

" Funny when i asked rabu-acoustics.dk they can not give me an exact price. What is the reason for that ???"

I don't know, they could certainly have got a quote from us?
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