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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
I have been following Jimmy's site on his testing of the "no name" electrolytic capacitor in the power supply. He says he could recognize the difference in a few seconds and that is over the Jensen 4 pole Electrolytic.

"on several seconds" I have not heard the Jensen 4 pole only have the 2 pole but on "several seconds" I could hear how much better the vintage electrolytic is. To me this means "if" the Jensen is considered a very good electrolytic by Jimmy and I am sure he has heard most all and within "several seconds" he could hear an easy difference we are nowhere near as good as we could be with electrolytics!

Occasions where I could hear the difference within "several seconds".

1 going from vintage foil in oil tweeter caps to Duelund VSF.
2 going from Duelund VSF tweeter caps to Duelund CAST.
3 going from vintage woofer inductor to Duelund VSF
4 going from Jensen Electrolytic back to vintage
5 comparing Sonicaps to vintage foil caps

Out of all the parts I have changed hearing the difference "in several seconds" happens far less than "needing hours" to hear the difference or admitting you can not hear the difference or are not sure what the difference is?

Parts that took time but differences can be heard
1 comparing a vintage foil midrange cap to a Duleund VSF
2 comparing Mundorf Supreme to Sonicaps
3 comparing Duelund Silver 2.0 to stranded copper for speaker cable.
4 comparing on a friends Khorns 20 yr old stock poly caps to Sonicaps. (I can't hear the difference)

If one can hear the difference "in several seconds" that indicates quite often a HUGE resonance reduction. I had mentioned on here before if a Jensen Electrolytic is an indication of a very good modern electrolytic then modern electrolytics are very poor! An area where MUCH can be done for improvement.

I know some will say how can you make big improvements over a top level part? Well Duelund VSF was considered the best cap in the world " super natural" and a CAST came along and is wayyyyyy quieter.
michaelvv
52 posts
 
Hi Again...

The Amp I have listening too, Is made but one of my good
friends who are an audio manufacturer located here we I'm
living in Denmark.

Unfortunately his webpage is in Danish, but maybe google
translation can help you.

The link is here : http://www.audio-classic.dk/index.php/forstaerker.html

He's asking 9500 DKR which equals 1600-1700 USD.

There a tons of good schematics on the Internet, and a lot
is DC based , no caps in the signal path at all.

All my amps are build by this guy, Because it's so easy for
me too be able to upgrade, 9 Km i distance from where I'm living.

I'll post a little more, when I get the 2a3.

All your Americans have tons of possibilities, fever if living in Europe, but quite some.

This amp is not going to replace my belowed 6c33 monos, it's
just meant as number 2 amp.

What I was remembering is the magic of the 2a3 Tube.

On Acoustic Recordings It's a whole new experience.

My recommendation is try a Direct Coupled DHT 2a3 if you have efficient Speakers, keep you existent Amps if you need to be able to play really loud.

/Michael

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Michaelvv,
It`s good to know you have a high quality 2A3 DHT amp for such a reasonable cost.DHT based tubes(SET or PP) are my favorite type of amplifiers,they so naturally convey music`s emotion when properly implemented. I mentioned the 2A3 amp by Dennis Fracker(Serious Stero) which has a great reputation but is very expensive! Congratulations, you have two fine power amps to enjoy.
Charles,
ricevs
1,543 posts
 
Better than copper cast Dueland? Jupiter Condenser is going to be releasing a new copper foil capacitor in about 2-3 months. Two people have compared prototypes directly to cast copper Duelands (a .1 and .47) and are hearing things they never heard before (all good things). These caps will be much less expensive than the Duelands but more than the current Jupiter caps. The pricing has not been set. The new Jupiters have some new techniques that have never been used in a Jupiter cap. Silver leads will be standard. They will be available in the same values that the current caps are available in...ie...there will be 100V versions for speakers and 600V versions for tube electronics. Please don't call Jupiter to find out more info.....please let them have the time to make these things. There is nothing more Chris can tell you than what I just wrote......We will just have to wait. I will be getting some in as soon as they come off the press and will report here. I am most interested in the 100V versions for my open baffle speaker kits I am developing.

So, imagine a cap at less than half the price of a cast copper Dueland that sounds better.....a nice image indeed. Stay tuned.
salectric
753 posts
 
That's great news Ricevs! I will keep an eye out for the new Jupiters.

In the meantime, I am trying some JB JFX Premiums that were recommended earlier in this thread. They are quite good sounding by any standard, and when you factor in the price (about 5% of a Duelund CAST) they are a real find.
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