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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Back from being away for a week.

I have been reading Jimmy has not completed his review too busy and Tony Gee has had these caps for months?

I have put in two and will have a bunch more this week coming.

I can say they are similar to the CAST in revealing wear in the vinyl. They are low noise and I was thinking I was going to have to do major mods on a vintage amp to put small value caps in but these Jupiter's fit the bill size wise! Now are they better than CAST? That is a serious listening test.

I am also looking at caps for my office system to replace vintage caps and would give up a little quality over CAST to save some money. So that could mean more sales for Jupiter.

I also might replace my other leaky CAST with some Duelund RS?

Duelund does not make CAST at lower prices for my size of cap. Quite frankly CAST might just be too expensive for the difference?

The Duelund RS is more in the price range of the Jupiter's. More but not crazy more if one was to like them better.

Looks like some interesting comparisons coming up!

Initial impressions of the Jupiter's is very good.

When I take out the CAST the first test will be Jupiter vs. Jensen Copper Paper Tube.

I have to say this thread has worked out even for me much better than I ever thought. Quickly from opinions here I could buy a cap (Jupiter in this case) and kind of know what I was getting. (when this thread started it was a lot of trial and error and often at a good deal of money)

I do not believe this was possible before the internet. Publications who might do this would be tied to advertising.

Off to watch a movie on the stereo and have to admit just awesome watching a movie with this kind of sound quality in two channel.
salectric
755 posts
 
New Duelund CAST caps installed in my speakers today. These are for the woofer shunt caps in a 2d order crossover. Even stone cold, they trounce the Mundorf Supreme caps that were previously my favorite for that spot. The excellent midrange detail, tight yet powerful bass, and excellent dynamics all far exceed my expectations, and this is with only 5 hours!
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,511 posts
 
Salectric

Good to hear. I was looking at your system again and your DIY amps look very well built. Nice work!

So it seems caps or resistors to shunt in a crossover are in fact important!

I know this to be true from experience. Interesting how the builders for the two last speakers I have owned said parts in these positions to not make a difference. They said Zobel network and/or parts to shunt ground are not important. I am curious why they say this, but actual experience in those same designs proves otherwise.

Those with crossover parts in these positions please do not overlook them for an upgrade as they do in fact make a difference.

Is your crossover internal or external? Love to see a picture. I found removing the crossover from all the turbulence in the cabinet yields more sonic improvement which makes sense.

I removed the crossover from my Lahave speaker and rebuilt them with upgraded parts outboard. I also damped the outboard box and placed it on stand. You helped me source those wonderful North Creek inductors and I also used Duelund and Jupiter caps as well as Jupiter solid core copper wire .... 14 gauge. I also rewired the speaker from drivers to outboard crossover with the same Jupiter solid core copper and cotton wire.

The results are stunning and well worth the effort.

I bet your speakers sound fantastic as well as your system. Really like viewing your system page. I will post mine again soon.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,511 posts
 
Volley, you will give up nothing compared to the Duelund CAST caps used in electronics vs. Jupiter copper caps. At least the ones sold at Parts Connextion. I and many others, all others I know who have done it, prefer the new Jupiter caps in their electronics. Thus far we have used them in DAC's and tube preamps & power amps.
salectric
755 posts
 
Grannyring, I completely agree with you about the importance of the shunt components. In my case, I have 2 shunt parts in the crossover itself---a shunt coil on the high frequency driver and a shunt cap on the woofer. Each of these is critical sonically. Different types of caps and coils, even with the same value, can sound very different.

In my design, I also have a Zobel network on the HF driver consisting of a small coil in series with a 5R resistor, in parallel with the driver itself. Each of these parts is also important sonically. I cannot imagine why anyone would say they aren't important.

My crossover is on an outboard panel on the floor behind each speaker. I made several changes to the crossovers when I moved them outside the speakers so I can't say what sonic changes were due to the outboard location alone. But regardless of sonics it is certainly easier to change parts when everything is external and easily accessible.

I will take some photos of the crossovers and post them shortly.
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