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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
slowikpl
14 posts
 
Hi all.

I have 3 way speakers nad need 12uF tweeter , 94 uF Mids
I ordered 8.2 uF and 2.2 uF CAST for tweeter and wil mix it with Mundorf SGO to get 12uF.

Fir the Mids I have 40uF VSF and 30uF Mundorf SO , 10uF Mundorf SG and 10uF Mundorf SGO , 2.2 Audyn True Copper 2 pcs.

My question is is it better to preserve the caps to full CAST on the tweeter? Or can I better thaI e the CAST 2.2 or 8.2 move from tweeter to the Mids ?

Or better to buy VSF for the tweeter like 4uF and mix it with 8.2 CAST? And move the 2.2 CAST to the Mids.

My speakers are DIY : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/234483-my-new-concept.html
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,504 posts
 
Your speakers are stunning and you are a very talented wood worker/craftsmen. They are the finest DIY speaker cabs I have ever set my eyes on. Congratulations!

I assume your values are correct, but must say I question 94uf of capacitance on the mids. Again, I will assume your right and make a suggestion.

I would not mix all the different brand of caps on each driver. All the different sonic flavors of each cap combined with the different materials in each cap could result in a bad or wrong sounding speaker. Some combinations work, while others will spoil the broth and sound horrendous.

Stick with one brand and model of cap on each driver.....do not mix unless the other brand is used as a small value bypass cap (under .47 uf or so).

Also, if breaking up the 94 uf cap is a must, then try to do so with caps of equal value or as close as you can get. For example nine 10uf caps and one 4uf. Six 15 uf caps etc........

Experienced builders suggest this is always best for sound quality.

I cannot stress enough to not mix 3 or 4 different brands of caps on your individual drivers. You cannot know the end result and will be playing sound quality Russian roulette.

Your speaker cabinate to simply to special to be ruined by this move. Your drivers are also very high quality. Again, very well done and I am impressed with your talent!
nyaudio98
420 posts
 
Recommend me an upgrade to the LSA statement 1 monitors pls?
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,504 posts
 
NYaudio98

Your speaker also comes in a signature version with a better Tweeter. If it fits in the very same cutout, then use that tweeter. Check with the builder.

From there you can upgrade the resistors and caps with the very same values. Your builder puts Dynamicaps in as an upgrade in the Signature model. They are good, but you can do better.

Please tell us what sound quality improvements you are after.

The biggest single improvement I have heard with all the mods and upgrades I have done to crossovers is this....

Take the crossover out of that vibrating and energy bombarding enclosure. Then dampen the heck out of your outboard crossover. This yields the single biggest improvement, but it takes more DIY skill. Not possible for all. Some don't want to do this mod as it also changes the original design substantially possibly hurting resale. This is a labor of love for one really into this sort of thing.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,504 posts
 
I posted this once, but you AGON DIY guys must try this if you have not done it as yet. The single most important sound quality upgrade I have heard is removing the crossover parts from the bombastic vibrating speaking box and making it outboard. This is so darn important and really makes your expensive passive component upgrades shine.

Don't stop here. Once the crossover is outboard, dampen it. I floated the crossover board in the middle of 30 pounds of Reptisand. I was absolutely shocked at the improvement. Stunning folks. Talk about removing noise and greatly improving focus and imaging. Oh my. Yeah, I know many won't do this for obvious reasons, but the sonic results are fantastic.

I started by just filling the box under the crossover board and listened. A definite improvement. I then buried the whole thing, totally buried, and the result was even better.

Some have done this with sand and that is fine for damping. However the Reptisand made with Quartz is a much better dialetric. Make sure it is Quartz as Reptisand comes in different forms and you want Quartz.

I vacuumed out all the sand and listened again. I could not wait to put the Reptisand back in as it is so much better sounding. What it does to remove noise is shocking. I had no idea I even had this "noise".

Bass is tighter and more articulate. The background or space between the Instruments and voice is black as black gets. The music is more natural sounding with more heft and body. Any vestige of glare has been removed.
The music is more effortless and the tone is so intoxicating.

The sand is very, very fine and smooth so it will not harm your components. I was able to vacuum it out easily. I sealed my box well and have no plans to vacuum it out again :)

I am not the first to try this Reptisand as I learned of it from others.
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