honestly if I did not already have a tube amp/preamp combo I would JUMP on the Swissnor amp on AudiogoN ... $900 for a $6000 retail Swiss made integrated tube amp.
speakers, I would look to wall mount rather than in wall just for the placement flexibility. how do you know the best position of the speaker before cutting a big hole in your wall??
good luck!! |
I don't think you have a grasp of the capabilities of tube amps/electrostatics. Get help from a local dealer. |
I agree with Truman. Nothing is going to sound like what you are looking for. ML's are nice but this one isn't designed to get "really loud". Also, your placement sounds messed up? Read ML's manual and see for yourself: https://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manuals/manual-electromotion-ic-iw-r.pdf
For tubes, you may be able to get into a hybrid but it really depends on your budget. Finally, these things have virtually no bass. You would need a subwoofer.
Find an ML dealer and go listen. |
Buy a really cool looking solid state amp instead. TUBES + BOOKCASE = FIRE. |
Not many local dealers if any deal with tubed. Was hoping to get some guidance here.
I'll check out the Swissnor. Thanks.
Wall mount not on wife approval list, maybe bookshelf.
Thanks for heads up on placementand link! Very helpful.
Tube look cool. Wife approval factor is high. Hope sound is good too.
The amp wi) have its own shelf away from any books. Fire shouldn't be an issue.
Appreciate the feedback. Is the amperage sufficient for high 80's dB speaker? |
I would not go with ESLs if you plan to mount the drivers in the wall!!
Instead I would get my hands on the most efficient and wide range speakers I could. ML ESLs are traditionally not very tube friendly and it sounds like you are on a budget so a high powered tube amp that will do the MLs justice is likely out of the picture.
Lowthers, PHY and other high efficiency drivers is where I would be looking (in my own case I would likely be looking at a 2-way system using 15" woofers of high efficiency so that I had full range; this would allow you to use a 5 or 6" driver for the mids and highs). This would allow you a lower powered (read: affordable) tube amplifier and the results could be really excellent. |
I could be mistaken, but I think he was talking about the ML's that use the ribbon tweeter. |
Yes, looking at ML electromotion in walls that have ribbon, but I am not married to them. The speakers will be built into the bookshelf with their own wood enclosure matching the shelving. I would also consider a compact bookshelf speaker but my max height is 11 inches and max depth 13 inches icluding cabling. I am taking into consideration the subwoofer comment and could add that on the lowest shelf if it is small enough, but my concern is not enough power to drive the main speakers with a tube amp and also limited height and depth. I expect a subwoofer would have its own amplifier. I may have to give up on something, maybe the tube if I want good sound volume. I was considering the Jolida from a size standpoint (and tube look). If I get a efficient in wall or bookshelf, will 10 tube watts drive high 80's low -90 dB speakers? |
@Atmasphere, thanks for the suggestion on the Lowthers. They look like an interesting project and I understand what you are suggesting, but they seem outside my price range, but I also understand they may compensate for a costlier amp. Have you built enclosures for them yourself? |
"The speakers will be built into the bookshelf with their own wood enclosure matching the shelving. I would also consider a compact bookshelf speaker but my max height is 11 inches and max depth 13 inches icluding cabling."
You need to do some experimenting. Putting a bookshelf speaker in a bookshelf will have a huge impact on how it sounds. I know that sounds silly, but the vast majority of bookshelf speakers were never meant to be put in a bookshelf. Maybe get a cheap pair of Pioneer or Polk from Best Buy just to see what you're getting into. You can always return them, or trade up to the ML in walls you first mentioned. |
@Zd542: yes, the more I get into this design, I realize compromises of what is a lifestyle type situation where I'm trying to get much better quality.I though maybe someone may have dealt with similar situations. Again appreciate the feedback as it helps sort the issues. |
Audiouny, I would really opt against installing in-wall speakers in a bookshelf. They were not designed to be installed that way and will sound awful. Also, the money spent having a carpenter build them in will be better spent on better bookshelf speakers.
Go look at nice little bookshelf speakers that are either front ported or not ported. Rear ported will never work. For an amp, look at a tube hybrid like a peachtree. |
If I get a efficient in wall or bookshelf, will 10 tube watts drive high 80's low -90 dB speakers? You sort of answered this question already- high 80s is not efficient, nor for that matter is the low 90s (that might considered medium efficiency). If you want a 10-watt amp to do the job, higher efficiency is recommended (but of course a lot depends on how loud you intend to play). |
Thank you for continued input. Here's where I'm at: considering Glow tube amp ( 1 or2), or Jolida fx 10 or 102rc, or 202brc if I can get one used in my price range. I have abandoned the in wall speaker idea and am considering glow speakers (cool bullet design), ZU cube (very efficient at 98db). I looked at and liked Omego super3''s (bottom ported; but too tall). I am setting up for a future compact subwoofer in a lower shelf or maybe triad in floor.
Has anyone experience with glow amps or speakers? I would need to balance the cost of the zu''s with hopefully a less expensive amp because of their high efficiency, although I need to check impedance at lower frequency of zu's. The glow amps come with an inexpensive dac and USB connection. Certainly learning a few things, hopefully making progress. |
In the wall speaker all sound terrible good luck. |
"I would need to balance the cost of the zu''s with hopefully a less expensive amp because of their high efficiency, although I need to check impedance at lower frequency of zu's. "
Good thing you posted that. Its actually just the opposite. Even though you need less power, it has to be very clean. Also, you need to be careful with regards to the gain of all your other components. If not, you run the risk getting large amounts of noise/hissing. |
@Zd542: not sure i understand the issue, do you know if the glow amp 2 or jolida fx 10 or 102 crc would create the issues you are referencing with the cubes? Thanks. |
