Phew! Lots of reading....
Glad to see that "Q" was discussed. Balancing enclosure size, driver characteristics, vent frequency and sensitivity is certainly an art. Not having heard the 20T, I would nonetheless find it a bit difficult to believe that Mike Kelly would purposely let a bloated high Q speaker out the door at 23k. Likewise I've learned that JA's cut 'n patch fr curves can be a bit misleading...as are most such attempts at describing response in a real environment. My assumption is that the 20T is for LARGE roms, where the big bass plateau can be appropriate. These ARE big speakers in my book....
I think it may be a bit too easy to criticize vented designs. Certainly if the vent frequency is low, and the driver well-controlled with a very low Fs, in an appropriate nonresonant enclosure, excellent results can be had. I understand the nherent problems, yet had moderate success loading a 3-way (8+5+0.75, vent 32-35Hz) a while ago. The problem wasn't so much the bass response, but other issues higher in frequency (matching driver sensitivities with loose OE specs!). Yet the speaker did have characteristic "vent" sound. Maybe we're all too much used to it, and Sean is partly right....
So it was quite a shock to hear how clean and tight the response is from my now-3yr old Verity Ausio Parsifal Encores, for example (8+5+1). Stunningly fast bass response that matches its incomparably-quick midrange. I asked Pelchat et al at VA how they did it, and mentioned that the Encore was predominantly about getting an extremely "fast" woofer custom spec'ed from Dynaudio, for which they pay a fortune. Sounds it...really hard to believe there's a lagging vent huffing and puffing in this design.... I suspect a low Q keeps things quick and flat, too, as I measure fla response to 30Hz in-room, falling precipitously below that, of course, as is typical of a tuned vent. You should listen to this speaker, Sean, before castigating all vented designs further....
Comments about boom-cha favored response (the old West Coast saddle-curve...aka Bose?) I find intriguing, and can't comment upon whether current designers are influenced by unnatural bass level pop music tastes....
Some posters correlate that flat bass frequency response is somewhat correlated with price. certainly this is only slightly true, vis a vis enclosure size cost. It's really not harder to design a $1k speaker with a reasonably flat and "chosen-Q and vent freq" than a $20k one. Thiele/Small, Q, vent geo, etc., are givens, so Aeriel's $23k speaker doesn't have smoother bass than the $6k Legacy for THAT reason. Hell, my Spendor 3/1p ($1400) have a nice smooth bottom. It's just good design....
There's too much to comment on here later....
Cheers. Ern
Glad to see that "Q" was discussed. Balancing enclosure size, driver characteristics, vent frequency and sensitivity is certainly an art. Not having heard the 20T, I would nonetheless find it a bit difficult to believe that Mike Kelly would purposely let a bloated high Q speaker out the door at 23k. Likewise I've learned that JA's cut 'n patch fr curves can be a bit misleading...as are most such attempts at describing response in a real environment. My assumption is that the 20T is for LARGE roms, where the big bass plateau can be appropriate. These ARE big speakers in my book....
I think it may be a bit too easy to criticize vented designs. Certainly if the vent frequency is low, and the driver well-controlled with a very low Fs, in an appropriate nonresonant enclosure, excellent results can be had. I understand the nherent problems, yet had moderate success loading a 3-way (8+5+0.75, vent 32-35Hz) a while ago. The problem wasn't so much the bass response, but other issues higher in frequency (matching driver sensitivities with loose OE specs!). Yet the speaker did have characteristic "vent" sound. Maybe we're all too much used to it, and Sean is partly right....
So it was quite a shock to hear how clean and tight the response is from my now-3yr old Verity Ausio Parsifal Encores, for example (8+5+1). Stunningly fast bass response that matches its incomparably-quick midrange. I asked Pelchat et al at VA how they did it, and mentioned that the Encore was predominantly about getting an extremely "fast" woofer custom spec'ed from Dynaudio, for which they pay a fortune. Sounds it...really hard to believe there's a lagging vent huffing and puffing in this design.... I suspect a low Q keeps things quick and flat, too, as I measure fla response to 30Hz in-room, falling precipitously below that, of course, as is typical of a tuned vent. You should listen to this speaker, Sean, before castigating all vented designs further....
Comments about boom-cha favored response (the old West Coast saddle-curve...aka Bose?) I find intriguing, and can't comment upon whether current designers are influenced by unnatural bass level pop music tastes....
Some posters correlate that flat bass frequency response is somewhat correlated with price. certainly this is only slightly true, vis a vis enclosure size cost. It's really not harder to design a $1k speaker with a reasonably flat and "chosen-Q and vent freq" than a $20k one. Thiele/Small, Q, vent geo, etc., are givens, so Aeriel's $23k speaker doesn't have smoother bass than the $6k Legacy for THAT reason. Hell, my Spendor 3/1p ($1400) have a nice smooth bottom. It's just good design....
There's too much to comment on here later....
Cheers. Ern