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DACs and bass response?

I'm auditioning dacs in my system. One (COS) was way to analytical, overall, but had very tight bass. Another (Aqua La Voce) is what some would describe as "musical"  and sounds  terrific in all aspects except bass. My cdp alone does better in that regard. I have monitors and no subs. Can I expect that dacs that are hyper-detailed will also offer tighter bass as a rule?
stuartk
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,503 posts
 
@audioengr,

Speaking of your Synchro-Mesh reclocker, what about DAC’s internal jitter control? Is it not good enough to reduce jitter on a incoming digital signal? I am just trying to understand the need for external reclocker.  

My DAC is equipped with a high resolution, low jitter clock. The measurements show Intrinsic Jitter <10 pS.  

In my setup, I always used balanced analog outs on my CD player straight into my preamp. The DAC digital inputs (SPDIF and AES/EBU) are being used for two dedicated steamers only. And then DAC analog outs (XLR) to my preamp. 

worldwidewholesales
135 posts
 
After trying over 70 different digital front ends including Total Dac/Total dac server combo, which were stunning, I now believe the source is more important than the actual dac. Two years ago when I was trying dac after dac, I would have said the dac had the most effect on my system but after playing with several different servers, including most of the top servers on the market, I now believe, in my system the server has more of an effect than the dac. I have also tested all Aqua dacs and both COS dacs. Now that I have a great server, great CAT 7 cables and a great USB cable, I can truly hear the differences between dacs.

 

Cheers and just my opinion.


mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 

bass in a dac is a somewhat complicated question. it can relate to multiple factors, including rack interface and power cords. and three dacs I’ve owned were quite high resolution, two with what i’d call ’hyper-detail’.......the Trinity dac and my current MSB Select II. that hyper detail did nothing to restrict bass. likely they did allow for super articulation. possibly some dacs do a bit of ’rounding’ and that can be perceived as having a ’heavier bass. but is that an artifact? or reality?

http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/select-features/

but my experience with my current dac, the MSB Select II, really hit home on how much the power supply can affect the bass and the overall sense of authority and ease in the bottom octaves. when i first purchased the MSB in June it had only a single power supply; which powered both the analog and digital circuits. then in August i added a second power supply. i had to send in my dual single box power supply and the manufacturer used the case of that dual unit and added another case and put a single power supply in each; one box for the analog circuits, and one for the digital circuits. I now had two power supplies each with it’s own power cord.

wow!!

the effect on the lower octaves and overall ease and authority was astounding. a huge difference. nothing else changed. the level of detail increased with greater expressiveness and overall levels of information was better.....lower noise.....greater nuance.

is this surprising? maybe not. we know that power supplies are a significant part of the overall performance of all electronics.

the bass in my dual power supply MSB Select II now compares favorably with my vinyl and Studer A-820 RTR deck bass. those are my references.

maplegrovemusic's avatar
maplegrovemusic
1,113 posts
 
@worldwidewholesales What server are you using ?
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Wow 800 psec of jitter would easily be audible. Even 20 psec jitter may be audible. This shows the importance of

1) A good modern asynchronous DAC that rejects the always present incoming jitter entirely - so you are left with inherent jitter of the DAC itself (for example Cranesong Solaris claims less than 0.5 psec jitter)
2) If you use a DAC that is not known for good incoming jitter immunity or rejection (perhaps a classic older DAC or something which just sounds good to you) then for goodness sake get Synchro-Mesh reclocker!

Be careful of asynchronous DACs that dont fully explain how they achieve a PLL. The very fact of gently adjusting the timing of a secondary clock to rapid fluctuations in the incoming clock can easily create low frequency jitter!! Some DACs have implemented a control filter on the timing adjustments that limit adjustments to less than 10Hz. Only a DAC that limits master-slave timing adjustments to BELOW the audible range (less than 10 Hz) can guarantee to eliminate all audible incoming jitter.

A poorly designed PLL may reduce jitter but create more audible jitter than a high level of random incoming jitter. The key is to understand that signal correlated jitter is much more audible than random jitter by several orders of magnitude. 20 psec jitter that is highly correlated could be much worse than 200 psec of totally random jitter. So a PLL may actually be a significant source of audible jitter!!! (sounds crazy but it is true)
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