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DACs and bass response?

I'm auditioning dacs in my system. One (COS) was way to analytical, overall, but had very tight bass. Another (Aqua La Voce) is what some would describe as "musical"  and sounds  terrific in all aspects except bass. My cdp alone does better in that regard. I have monitors and no subs. Can I expect that dacs that are hyper-detailed will also offer tighter bass as a rule?
stuartk
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

Tight bass in a DAC is achieved by a combination of low jitter of the interface or input signal to the DAC as well as power delivery that enables this in the DAC.

Power delivery includes power supply, voltage regulators, power storage caps and power decoupling caps.  These all must be good designs and high-quality parts of optimum values.  The caps in particular must have high "Q".  Bass dynamic response depends on it.

The output caps affect on bass response will be minimal as long as the load is high-impedance, like 25K ohms. Even 1uFd is sufficient to get good bass.   If you plug 100 ohm headphones into the DAC output, it will probably not have any bass, but any preamp or amp will be 25K ohms or higher.  Not an issue.

I make a very detailed DAC, the Overdrive SX, but it also has superb bass response. Ultra-clear imaging and liquid vocals.  If you don't care about DSD, the Overdrive SX is the one to beat. It does not decode DSD.

One thing that will make it difficult to compare DACs is if you are not using the same interface, for instance comparing one DAC driven from a CD transport to another using USB from a computer for instance.  The first thing is to achieve a really low jitter source.  Then, feed all of the DACs with this same source.  Your CD transport can become this, but it will need some help.  A Synchro-Mesh reclocker can reduce the jitter to around 20psec.  Typical Transports have about 800psec of jitter.  See these jitter plots:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154408.0

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

stuartk OP
2,759 posts
 
@audioengineer: Steve: I've read many favorable reviews of your dac. Unfortunately it's beyond my financial reach at this time. Thanks for the info and suggestions. 
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,429 posts
 
@audioengr,

Speaking of your Synchro-Mesh reclocker, what about DAC’s internal jitter control? Is it not good enough to reduce jitter on a incoming digital signal? I am just trying to understand the need for external reclocker.  

My DAC is equipped with a high resolution, low jitter clock. The measurements show Intrinsic Jitter <10 pS.  

In my setup, I always used balanced analog outs on my CD player straight into my preamp. The DAC digital inputs (SPDIF and AES/EBU) are being used for two dedicated steamers only. And then DAC analog outs (XLR) to my preamp. 

worldwidewholesales
134 posts
 
After trying over 70 different digital front ends including Total Dac/Total dac server combo, which were stunning, I now believe the source is more important than the actual dac. Two years ago when I was trying dac after dac, I would have said the dac had the most effect on my system but after playing with several different servers, including most of the top servers on the market, I now believe, in my system the server has more of an effect than the dac. I have also tested all Aqua dacs and both COS dacs. Now that I have a great server, great CAT 7 cables and a great USB cable, I can truly hear the differences between dacs.

 

Cheers and just my opinion.


mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 

bass in a dac is a somewhat complicated question. it can relate to multiple factors, including rack interface and power cords. and three dacs I’ve owned were quite high resolution, two with what i’d call ’hyper-detail’.......the Trinity dac and my current MSB Select II. that hyper detail did nothing to restrict bass. likely they did allow for super articulation. possibly some dacs do a bit of ’rounding’ and that can be perceived as having a ’heavier bass. but is that an artifact? or reality?

http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/select-features/

but my experience with my current dac, the MSB Select II, really hit home on how much the power supply can affect the bass and the overall sense of authority and ease in the bottom octaves. when i first purchased the MSB in June it had only a single power supply; which powered both the analog and digital circuits. then in August i added a second power supply. i had to send in my dual single box power supply and the manufacturer used the case of that dual unit and added another case and put a single power supply in each; one box for the analog circuits, and one for the digital circuits. I now had two power supplies each with it’s own power cord.

wow!!

the effect on the lower octaves and overall ease and authority was astounding. a huge difference. nothing else changed. the level of detail increased with greater expressiveness and overall levels of information was better.....lower noise.....greater nuance.

is this surprising? maybe not. we know that power supplies are a significant part of the overall performance of all electronics.

the bass in my dual power supply MSB Select II now compares favorably with my vinyl and Studer A-820 RTR deck bass. those are my references.

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