Do you believe in Magic?

Not to further derail this thread but in keeping with my past comment, this tactic of derailment is commonly used in all manner of conversation when nothing can be added to said conversation, or when opinions differ not due to the topic, but to a belief. Emotion then takes over and semantics are used to further that belief (unfounded as it is).

Admonishing someone to stay on point (which I've gotten used to doing in my daily life) can be really taxing but when someone knows I'm going to deploy that tactic, they tend to stay on topic or simply move on. In fact, those around me appreciate it all the more and use it themselves. It's a learning process.

Recognizing these and other types of derailment are necessary to follow a given conversation in an intelligent, informative and appreciative manner.

Depots have taken over whole countries with simply a microphone.
Politicians convince some people that the sun shines at midnight.
And some hobbyists refuse to fully appreciate the views of others when they simply don't believe a particular facet of the hobby that others share.
The operative word seems to be 'share'.
They do it with a practiced conviction that at first blush appears to have some sort of validity but upon cursory examination can be laid bare for what it is: a disparagement of sorts for no particular reason.

Sorry to go like this but Bryon made a mighty fine point that i just had to add to.

All the best,
Nonoise

01-26-12: Sonicbeauty
"This whole discussion exemplifies everything I have come to understand about the truth AND destiny of this hobby: The MUSIC taking a backseat to the never-ending analysis of SOUND, and the countless hours wasting on getting that little one last drop of improvement."

I suspect it's actually quite common for the anti tweak segment of the hobby to believe, or at least employ the argument, that there's not much to be gained by attention to detail and trying to progress in this hobby. And that only a measly 3%, that one last drop, can be achieved. Boomboxes start to look like a real alternative to anti audiophile mossbacks, no offense to Sonicbeauty personally.

Point taken & understood Byron.

Sometimes speedily expressing ones self in these little boxes can lead to points that with a little closer inspection could have been worded better.

Much as I enjoy these online communities there is nothing like talking to someone in the flesh. I am sure all the above comments over a beer or tea would result in much less abrasion.

All that to say I can sense sonicbeauty's frustration.

04-20-12: Nonoise
The operative word seems to be 'share'.

This is exactly right, IMO. Sharing, as simple as it sounds, is regrettably difficult for some people. It's something all children are taught but many adults forget.

It's easy to mistake talking for sharing. They are not the same. With sharing, the intention is to GIVE. There are people on A'gon who give so selflessly it is just remarkable. They give information, advice, support, humor, etc.. Some of those people have participated in this thread.

I don't regard myself as a paragon of giving, though I certainly make it a goal. That may strike some as dubious, since I've done more than my share of arguing on this thread, which is the antithesis of sharing. For six years in graduate school I was trained to argue, so I can easily lapse into it. But I seldom enjoy it and usually regret it.

Having said all that, I believe that there are times when arguing is exactly what is appropriate. Two scenarios come to mind: to challenge utter nonsense and to stop bullying. But even arguing can be done with a certain amount of restraint, the value of which is that We're trying to have a civilization here.

Bryon

04-21-12: Chadeffect
Sometimes speedily expressing ones self in these little boxes can lead to points that with a little closer inspection could have been worded better.

Much as I enjoy these online communities there is nothing like talking to someone in the flesh. I am sure all the above comments over a beer or tea would result in much less abrasion.

I agree, Chad, that a certain amount of conflict is attributable to unfortunate wording that leads to false impressions. Sometimes people who appear contrary, or even belligerent, don't really mean that much by what they say.

As I mentioned in my last post, I believe that getting along with people is more about a person's intentions than it is their expressions. But inferring intentions from expressions isn't always easy, as this thread has illustrated several times. So I completely agree with you that written conversations sometimes CONCEAL people's real thoughts and feelings.

Having said that, it's worth pointing out that written conversations can also REVEAL people's real thoughts and feelings. An obvious reason is that the safety provided by "virtual" conversations emboldens people to act in ways they might not otherwise. Virtual conversations are like drunk conversations... inhibitions are lowered and the truth comes out, and sometimes the truth is ugly.

Another reason why written conversations can reveal people's real thoughts and feelings is that, unlike spoken conversations, there is a LATENCY and a RECORD. So when something doesn't feel quite right, you can take your time to really think about what a person has said, which is difficult to do in real time during a spoken conversation.

My wife is a clinical psychologist. This conversation is reminding me of conversations with her (in a good way). Maybe in addition to Amps, Speakers, Tech Talk, etc., Audiogon should have a category for Group Therapy. We could all use it from time to time.

bc