Do you believe in Magic?

04-20-12: Chadeffect
...one has to understand & keep in mind the obsessive illness that does dominate this hobby...

It is easy to let the gear get in the way of the music.

I agree with this, Chad. I suspect every audiophile has had the experience of having his thoughts about equipment interfere with his enjoyment of the music. When that is presented as a mere statement of fact, I have absolutely no objection.

But IMO, Sonicbeauty isn't merely expressing a statement of fact. He is passing judgment on the content of this thread and its participants. That is what I object to. If his judgment wasn't obvious from his last post, it should be obvious from his FIRST post...

01-26-12: Sonicbeauty
This whole discussion exemplifies everything I have come to understand about the truth AND destiny of this hobby: The MUSIC taking a backseat to the never-ending analysis of SOUND, and the countless hours wasting on getting that little one last drop of improvement. Louis Armstrong, John Lennon, and Mozart must be laughing from Up There. And please, dont serve me the argument that in the long run, this will make us enjoy the artist more. It may, of course, but by the time this happens, another upgrade-tweak-inducing insatisfaction will surface and start this whole quest for ''finding the air around the instruments''(that's what it's all about right?) process again. This hobby is about GEAR and SOUND, not music, and this topic is proof of it!

That should make it abundantly clear that SB's comments are not mere statements of fact but rather judgements, in spite of his subsequent disavowal.

Anyone who spends time around here will recognize that judgments of this kind are a commonplace with some posters. Some people would rather denigrate a conversation than participate in it. I sometimes get the impression that these people believe that denigrating a conversation IS participating in it. That is sad. It derails what might otherwise be constructive conversation, and it isolates us from one another, which is contrary to the whole raison d'être of sites like these.

Bryon

Not to further derail this thread but in keeping with my past comment, this tactic of derailment is commonly used in all manner of conversation when nothing can be added to said conversation, or when opinions differ not due to the topic, but to a belief. Emotion then takes over and semantics are used to further that belief (unfounded as it is).

Admonishing someone to stay on point (which I've gotten used to doing in my daily life) can be really taxing but when someone knows I'm going to deploy that tactic, they tend to stay on topic or simply move on. In fact, those around me appreciate it all the more and use it themselves. It's a learning process.

Recognizing these and other types of derailment are necessary to follow a given conversation in an intelligent, informative and appreciative manner.

Depots have taken over whole countries with simply a microphone.
Politicians convince some people that the sun shines at midnight.
And some hobbyists refuse to fully appreciate the views of others when they simply don't believe a particular facet of the hobby that others share.
The operative word seems to be 'share'.
They do it with a practiced conviction that at first blush appears to have some sort of validity but upon cursory examination can be laid bare for what it is: a disparagement of sorts for no particular reason.

Sorry to go like this but Bryon made a mighty fine point that i just had to add to.

All the best,
Nonoise

01-26-12: Sonicbeauty
"This whole discussion exemplifies everything I have come to understand about the truth AND destiny of this hobby: The MUSIC taking a backseat to the never-ending analysis of SOUND, and the countless hours wasting on getting that little one last drop of improvement."

I suspect it's actually quite common for the anti tweak segment of the hobby to believe, or at least employ the argument, that there's not much to be gained by attention to detail and trying to progress in this hobby. And that only a measly 3%, that one last drop, can be achieved. Boomboxes start to look like a real alternative to anti audiophile mossbacks, no offense to Sonicbeauty personally.

Point taken & understood Byron.

Sometimes speedily expressing ones self in these little boxes can lead to points that with a little closer inspection could have been worded better.

Much as I enjoy these online communities there is nothing like talking to someone in the flesh. I am sure all the above comments over a beer or tea would result in much less abrasion.

All that to say I can sense sonicbeauty's frustration.

04-20-12: Nonoise
The operative word seems to be 'share'.

This is exactly right, IMO. Sharing, as simple as it sounds, is regrettably difficult for some people. It's something all children are taught but many adults forget.

It's easy to mistake talking for sharing. They are not the same. With sharing, the intention is to GIVE. There are people on A'gon who give so selflessly it is just remarkable. They give information, advice, support, humor, etc.. Some of those people have participated in this thread.

I don't regard myself as a paragon of giving, though I certainly make it a goal. That may strike some as dubious, since I've done more than my share of arguing on this thread, which is the antithesis of sharing. For six years in graduate school I was trained to argue, so I can easily lapse into it. But I seldom enjoy it and usually regret it.

Having said all that, I believe that there are times when arguing is exactly what is appropriate. Two scenarios come to mind: to challenge utter nonsense and to stop bullying. But even arguing can be done with a certain amount of restraint, the value of which is that We're trying to have a civilization here.

Bryon