Does anyone or does everyone pay retail price?

And mark-up is only part of it. Collecting sales taxes are an extra burden on the local dealer, 6% in my state. The local dealer doesn't have a chance with many of us.

Add the 6% plus MSRP, I can usually get at least 15% plus the 6% sales tax from mail order/out of state dealer (not collecting out-of-state sales taxes), the local dealer has to give me 21% off to compete, not really fair to him. The added personal service, possible auditioning has to be worth the extra 6% to you.

I'm not making any judgement calls about state sales taxes and/or dealer markups, I'm simply bringing to light consumer considerations. Dealers seem to have it tough, state sales taxes, likely higher overhead costs, contracts stipulating no out-of-state sales all serve to make life tough for them.

I bought my system about six years ago. The front end (TT, arm, catridge and CDP) and the speakers were new from a dealer. The electronics (amp, preamp, phono amp) were used from Audiogon. The dealer set everything up and provided excellent service for which I paid MSRP. In the six years since, I have upgraded the electonics with items found here on Audiogon.

Paid retail only once @ a local BM store, anticipating and having an understanding (which wasn't mutual, it appears) that the dealer would provide an adequate after-sale service...you know, loaner when the damn thing broke, promptly getting accesories from the distributor for which I'd naturally pay etc. None of it had happened,the dealer took my money and laughed all the way to the bank... so no longer an audio virgin, I made a promise to myself that I'd never ever pay retail again and beat every BM store dealer to the last bloody penny, if I ever were to buy anything from them again. And expect nothing in return. I did keep my promise!

That 40% mark-up that some talk about here forget just a few small expenses a B&M store has to contend with to keep his doors open.

* Rent on the building (can be a big cost.. Location, Location!)
* Utility bills
* Phone bill
* Yellow page ad in the phone book
* Fire content insurance premiums
* Liability insurance premiums
* Advertising expenses
* Fees paid to the accountant
* Possible interest $$ for Bank line of credit to buy inventory?
Many manufactures require payment up front before they will ship their merchandise. And of course that is plus shipping costs as well. So if the B&M store is of any real size he has to have a banker.
* Business permits, Fees, required by the city, and or state.

* Employee/s base wages
* Employee/s commissions (percentage $$ for selling an item)
* Employee State unemployment insurance
* Employee workman compensation insurance
* Matching FICA taxes on wages
* Any health benefits?
* Any paid holidays?
* something I probably left out....
* Owners wages?
* Owners health insurance premium?
_____________________________________
....... profit .........
=======

How could a dealer possibly give a 20% to 25% discount to every customer coming through his door?

you are correct jea48, and there's the cost of the money(itself) they need to operate...same applies to manfacturers....and shipping is higher than ever too. when i worked for a manufacturer, our 'raw' cost of goods was about 20 percent of wholesale. the wholesale in turn was 50% off of retail. throw in all the above, as well as advertising co-op, marketing, travel to bs shows, mia gear, payments, etc, and you're lucky to keep your head above water.....the business was murder fifteen years ago, can't be anything but worse now. you really have to love it to hang in at any level.