Equipment Rack


Does it make sense to spend several thousands of dollars on a equipment rack, if Stillpoints are used under every component?
ricred1
agear
1,099 posts
08-03-2016 3:35pm
Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
Give me a strong enough spring and I’ll isolate the world

to which agear commented,

"A master of irony we are.....;"

what’s ironic about it?

Then agear inquired,

"What do you do for a living or are you a full time audio tweak guru? I cannot imagine that is more fertile ground for an aerospace engineer than NASA...."

NASA? Shirley you’re joking. Makes the shackles on the back of neck stand up.

Have a nice day

to which agear replied,

"Geoff, you are not connecting the dots. Its ironic simply because because you yourself have been ridiculed on multiple forums for the absence of any science behind your products. I don’t agree with that stance necessarily, but it is what it is. Trolls be trolls."

I don't understand what you mean. I have lots, and I do mean lots, of science behind my products. They are, in fact, ALL based on science. I was even gracious enough to provide the details of how the Teleportation Tweak works on my web site. Don't tell me you missed it! Ditto for the Super Intelligent Chip, vibration isolation stands, crystals, the Clever Little Clock. Follow?

agear then commented, 

The NASA reference is derived from your CV/bio on your website. I don't understand your response."

I don't understand your question. If you have access to my CV/bio what's all the rumpus? I worked at NASA as Sr. mathematician but that was 45 years ago. 

Finally agear asked,

"What do you do for a living?"

I like to think of myself as a song and dance man.

To be fair, no manufacturer has provided such data.

I personally am unconvinced that isolation from the boogey man of seismology has any real relevance.
Maybe but at least there is ample and readily accessible data on how springs can be used for seismic isolation, any modern construction in an earthquake zone stands in evidence of this. The Star Sound guys made a claim about their spikes and an appeal based on their "seismic expert" and I’d just like to see them back that up

Geoff always has a scientific theory or data point (even if some of them are odd) to back up every one of his claims

Hello folkfreak,

Your request was forwarded to the seismologist who provided us information on diodes related to shear waves and seismic waves. Our associate is doing us a time consuming favor here so please be a bit more patient.

Geoff and I both asked for a link to an independent third party data source on how your spikes, or any other similar device could act as a mechanical diode able to isolate against seismological effects, You have yet to provide this. As far as I can tell you have brought no facts to this "debate"

We never said spikes would isolate seismological effects. I believe the word used was “rejected” (the audiotweak on 07-25-2016 9:18pm). We stated there is far more energy moving down the Sistrum Platform™ towards earth than energy flowing up the conductive platform hence rejecting the majority of seismic energy rising above the gravity of earth’s ground per the angles of geometry located at the tip of the Audio Point™ and our understanding of shear waves. 

Analogy: Turn on a fire hydrant with the water flow wide open and put your fist in the hole - it’s a tough go. The same is true with seismic waves moving up the platform.

Sistrum Platforms  DO NOT ISOLATE. Isolation traps energy within the component. Without an exit, resonant energy propagates on all smooth surfaces hence establishing component operational "inefficiency" (per Coulomb's Law).  

Within our model the seismic energy has to rise up from the earth moving against the greater flow of energy established by geometry and material science that is rapidly moving downward supported by the laws of motion and gravity. We do not care where interfering energy comes from. It will arrive via air-borne, floor-borne and structure-borne sources regardless of any type of attempts to isolate it.

Our platforms are made of conductive materials and vibrates, attracting energy from every known source. The key to function is "resonance transfer" to ground via high speed conductive pathways depending heavily on the forces of gravity. The seismic energy actually arriving upwards at the component level is so minute after battling motion, gravity and space, well in truth we never heard it so these mini earthquakes were never on our radar.

We have disclosed facts on this thread related specific to the mechanical sciences for which our products and technology are based which is resonance caused from vibration related to Coulomb’s Law. We can provide as much non-proprietary information as you can digest relative to our applications. Proprietary information at this time cannot be divulged do to current US Patent searches.

You can begin here:

http://starsoundaudio.com/liveVibeDetails2.php?Vibration-and-Coulomb-Friction-5


Seismology has been around for some time, agreed? Live-Vibe Technology™ has been around for sixteen years so we do not know everything or have a history of scientific data supporting it. When we say its a new approach, it is just that - a new technology where we are working to prove as a science.

Until the data arrives from our investment in third party testing, we can only back our claims in that we are willing to compare the performance of our products to any in today’s market - any comparisons, any products. The one leg we stand heavily on is the proof of undeniable musical performance.

Again, we are working to acquire you more information.

R Maicks



"We never said spikes would isolate seismological effects. I believe the word used was “rejected” (the audiotweak on 07-25-2016 9:18pm). We stated there is far more energy moving down the Sistrum Platform™ towards earth than energy flowing up the conductive platform hence rejecting the majority of seismic energy rising above the gravity of earth’s ground per the angles of geometry located at the tip of the Audio Point™ and our understanding of shear waves."

the trouble with that entire paragraph is that the frequencies involved are quite different so one set of vibrations coming down cannot block the seismic (very low) frequencies going up. Furthermore the energy involved with the seismic vibration is much much greater than the energy coming down towards the floor since seismic energy can move the entire building, and does move it, the everyday microseismic activity moves the building up and down, to and for, and in 3 rotational directions. The spikes are unable to deal with the rotational directions of seismic vibration and cannot block them. So the real analogy is it’s like a 44 Magnum vs a pea-shooter, with the seismic vibration being the 44 Magnum. Without decoupling techniques such a mass on spring the whole Coulomb device is moving right along with the motion of the bundling and the spikes are moving up and down right along with the motion of the building.

There is nothing coming down the pike resembling 0-20 Hz, but there is plenty of seismic vibratin going UP the pike in that region, which includes the resonant frequencies of tonearms, cartridges, turntable platters, CD laser assemblies circa 8-12 Hz. 

If spikes could block seismic vibrations as you claim LIGO, the experiment to detect gravity waves could have saved itself an awful lot of time and effort by foregoing the very advanced seismic vibration isolation systems they developed and just used Coulomb type devices, or spikes or mechanical diodes. But that would not have worked. In order to obtain the instrument sensitivities that were eventually deemed necessary to detect gravity waves (recall they are the amplitude of the diameter of a neutron) REAL and HEROIC sesmic vibration isolation techniques were required. Gravity waves were not detected overnight. LIGO project was begun 20 years ago and didn’t detect gravity waves until last year, most of the effort was actually applied to the development of the seismic vibration isolation systems.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
vibration isolation & resonance control



The opinions of the engineers who have worked on this study throughout our history stated all along that the geometry governing the tip of the Audio Point rejected low frequency from the floor surface . Our newest associate in science flew in for a meeting to fully see what we were doing as she found our design for the mechanical grounding of musical instruments on the web and thought the two of us might be sharing on an infringement with regards to each other’s patents and methods.
...

She said it was common knowledge in her field of seismic science that this shape was a mechanical diode.
This is the full quotation. Personally my reading of the definition of a diode is close to 100% rejection, in other words isolation at the frequencies in question

I’m also hopelessly confused as to what you are claiming your devices do. Per your latest they DO NOT ISOLATE so presumably they do not reject any of the extremely low frequency interference that is at issue in all of this discussion and thus in comparison with spring based products bring nothing to the table

Arguments about the proportions of energy moving up rather than down are besides the point (and also act as a perfect demonstration that your product is not in any way a diode)

And by the way where is all this sub 8Hz interference moving down your platforms coming from (your fire hose analogy)? I’m not sure I’m aware of any well set up audio system that generates energy at this frequency? I think this was Geoff’s point in response

The one leg we stand heavily on is the proof of undeniable musical performance.

Really all of this fuss could have been avoided if you'd refrained from making claims based on assertions of science and instead said what you say above -- "we fine tune our stuff to sound good and improve the performance of your system", it was good enough for the makers of Cremona after all (and by the way I believe you)