If you go and google ethernet industry standards, problems, EMI/RFI noise pollution, loss of packets, oversubscription, etc. you come up with page after page detailing how it happens all the time, along with the solutions they've had to come up with. This can all be found on their very own industry websites and not some crank audio site.
All freddy is doing is relying on our laymen ignorance (ignorance in a good way) so, as he's proudly proclaimed, until someone can come on who knows more than he does, then he's king sh*t of turd island, and that makes him unassailable.
If you've noticed, he's down to relying on "theoretical" proof that nothing can better it.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Sorry you had to doubt yourself but at least you went and soldiered up to make sure and it turned out your hearing is just fine. Always trust your ears and avoid the professional naysayers.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 , Fanatical in getting noise out of my system, yes. Brilliant observation.
From your reply to ghasley, it looks like you're relying on the ignorance (in a good and non offensive way) of others to look smugly superior until something like the last post from rockrider came along, which mirrors what I gleaned from the link I provided on ethernet protocols and just what can limit or hinder it, which you shot down as not relevant, though it seems to have been.
You're quite the strange fellow.
All the best,
Nonoise
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I have tried “audiophile” Ethernet cables, I have tried UpTone’s Etherregen, and I have not heard any difference.
For a person of such strong convictions, knowing that it couldn't possibly make a difference, what was it that made you try it to see if you could hear a difference?
Did your faith waver? That would explain the zealotry as you came back into the fold.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
Nope, not in the least. I learned some along the way. My only sin was conflating loss of sound quality with data loss and noise over an ethernet cable. You pointed that out earlier in the thread. BFD. The point has always been about reducing noise on an ethernet cable.
The rest was you planting a flag on this mountain of a mole hill looking for revenge from some earlier, ancient thread, to which you admitted. You can't hear what others do with an ethernet cable swap and avoided answering my questions. That speaks a lot to your character. Now, back to your bottle and I'll get back to my system, which is way more resolving than yours.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
I'm answering your question about how a packet can be lost. The cables and devices in question help to filter out noise better than industry standard ones. Your recitation above is all Greek to me but it does go to show you know your job but have average hearing at best, as other members have already pointed out. Probably why you went to the bother of writing it all up.
With your wireless setup, and how much RFI gets into that?
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
Does oversubscription, errors and excessive delay cover that? The article makes it clear that it occurs and needs to be monitored. Any how....members here do hear a difference, for the better, all the while ignoring your advice.
Now. practice what you preach, and just go away. Put down that bottle, or battle flag you carry around and get a life.
All the best,
Nonoise
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After going back to the video, I noticed that the schematics are only available to Patreon contributors so I found this site that actually builds it along with the video from Mr. Carlson's YT channel.
It's much more sensitive than the junk posted earlier and should be an enjoyable task for those that are handy with an iron.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Here is a cheap device available for purchase doing the exact same thing: https://www.winradio.com/home/erd.htm
Well then, what's stopping you from getting one, sussing out your system, and getting back to us?
You are correct, I don’t like you.
That tells me all I need to know, freddy. Now go and bother all the other members who dissed you as well (even worse) and stop hanging on every word I say.
And even PS Audio is making the claim that it doesn’t make a difference.
So you worship at the altar of Paul?
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
The device he came up with is different from the usual noise makers out there which is why he's posted the design of it, online, for free. That video is from 2021. If you're so smart, why don't you look it up, build it, do a sweep of your system, and get back to us?
Nothing outlandish in my claims and you still harp on and on which tells me you do hold a grudge from something from the past since you sidestepped my inference. What was it, exactly?
And again, is that one member correct and you don't hear any difference due to your hearing, even with wireless?
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
From the time stamp on your reply, you didn't watch the whole video, did you? Then you go about with pound-your-chest pronouncements on how great you are and how uniformed I am and then have the audacity to say more members here don't hear a difference? Pure hubris.
If you bothered to watch the entire video, the host invented a device that can "hear" the effects of RFI on any cable (even ethernet) or component. And to think you're presently using a wireless set up due to a renovation project, with all the attendant RFI polluting your system's sound. Do you hear the difference?
Maybe lordmelton was correct in his assessment of you.
But, by all means, keep on attacking me and while you're at it, try some of the other members lest one think you have some personal grudge against me for some other, past posts that didn't deal with audio. That would tell me a lot as well.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
You're quite the impossible person to deal with, aren't you? The vehicle analogy was snark. You take yourself way too seriously. As for the AUDIO part, there are way too many people here who've heard the difference and said so just in this post, not to mention all the other threads.
You yourself doubted that it couldn't get any better and tried it yourself but did not hear a difference. That's on you. Others have and did hear an improvement. Get over it. And while you're at it, watch this video:
All the best,
Nonoise
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you are, again, absolutely wrong. USB and HDMI is not the same as Ethernet, and do not have a multi layer stack of error detection and correction.
Go back to slowly read what I said and you'll see I used the word "tactic" and did not say it was the same thing. As for your choice of vehicles, I'd frame it as Amazon truck vs. a Ferrari.
As for not improving the signal, tell me why so many others here profess to hear an improvement and you're not addressing the matter to them.
And as for the rejection of packets, tell me why this article refutes that and even goes farther than you're willing to admit that it's not a perfect setup.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@antigrunge2 ,
Yes, it does seem so, brother. 👍😄👍
All the best,
Nonoise
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It's not just 1s and 0s. That's a gross oversimplification to make it seem unchallengeable. It's an electrical signal approximating a 1 and a 0 and it had better do it right or it's messed up.
Granted, this is represents what a USB cable has to deal with but it applies to all digital cables. The tactic of citing all the protocols and safeguards that ethernet uses to ensure proper and safe transmission have been similarly used for USB and HDMI defenders and it turned out they were wrong. I wonder if some detractors here were in that camp. Maybe they believe a variation of some kind of spooky action at a distance is at play here: that what is at one end is perfectly done at the other.
Minute amounts of noise that can find its way in will corrupt the signal. Now if you're slinging cable and want to transfer text, download legal files, or print your manifest to nail on a church door, then it's not that important because you're printing dead (static) junk. Music, which is always in motion, is a finer needle to thread.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
You can' offend me in the least despite your bravado so it wasn't me that got your post deleted. You try you best to look down your nose at me but it won't work as I don't consider you a peer but more of a nuisance.
Cables make a difference and unless you're willing to try it for yourself and not rely on motivated reasoning, you'll never really know.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
Just as I thought: a lazy authoritarian. The evidence is out there for anyone to see yet you won’t take a look. I’ve been around long enough to know that anything I post or link to will be rejected, outright.
I’ve done it enough times here that I won’t do it anymore. You’ll just flat out reject it due to your confirmation bias. Check out the search engine, above, and take a gander but, as I already said, you’re a lazy authoritarian.
Tell me freddy, are you satisfied with your cable TV picture? It comes approximately the same way as your music. Have you compared it to say, the blu ray equivalent? Is not the blu ray much, much better? (I hope and pray you do or this is one big meaningless waste of time)
Now, do you think that the signal you’re getting is as pristine as from a CDP? Do you think all the extra boxes and cables don’t add something to the mix? You really should look into some kind of deprogramming course.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222
Appeals to authority may work on the audiences you preach to but not with me. Heck, there are even some A'gon regulars who've tried that approach and it didn't work then, either. Some even have better credentials than you and lost the argument.
That, and you seem to be one who likes to dish it out but can't take it. That doesn't fly so well here as well. And, confirmation bias is nothing new to bandy about like you're some kind of authority on the subject. It works both ways and applies to your perceptions as well. Ever tried some introspection?
All the best,
Nonoise
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@fredrik222 ,
You are one naive individual. Noise gets in even with "modern" equipment. You need to take your act on the road in the Catskills with an audience as out of touch as yourself.
And, to not see what 12many implied (or even worse, for you to intentionally give cover for) is pathetic.
All the best,
Nonoise
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I find it amazing that someone thinks that their 10ft cable at home can clean up a stream from thousands of miles away.
This has been shot down so many times now that it's become silly. No one is suggesting that one is cleaning up all the preceding miles of cables before it gets to your place. What one is doing is making sure that the gear is "seeing" what's at the outlet and addressing any noise issues introduced there.
That argument is the lamest of red herrings.
As for 12many's clumsy way of saying it's all the in mind of the listener, which is another way of saying he's crazy and to let it be, is downright condescending.
All the best,
Nonoise
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I just wanted a better ethernet cable from my router to my new iMac so after perusing all the articles and reviews, I found a one meter Cat 8 cable on Amazon for $8 that’s gotten 4.7 star reviews. Heck, they even printed out the Fluke measurement results.
At that price and not getting one for audio purposes, how could I pass on it? But if it were for audio purposes, I’d try out the ones that "sound" better.
All the best,
Nonoise
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