Ethernet Clocking

@lmcmalo I wish you could come round to hear my system with its ‘special switch’ and Ethernet RFI filtering. I would give you a demonstration of streaming from Qobuz with the Ethernet signal direct from the router, and then via the special switch and filtering. The difference is stunning, I do this demo a lot to friends and family, none of which have HiFi systems and are inexperienced listeners. They are all amazed by the difference, ‘night and day’ is a commonly used expression.

Once you’d heard this difference you could use your valid experience of designing to help develop even greater products for us all enjoy our streamed music more.

Only problem is, I’m in the UK, but if you’re passing by, please arrange to drop in.

Her is John Quick of DCS as quotedby Austinpop on the merit of external clocks:

We began to employ external master clocks due to our experience in the pro arena, where there are generally numerous clocks running simultaneously, thereby making their use mandatory; though our engineers questioned their efficacy in relatively closed consumer systems, there is both objective/measured and subjective/listening evidence that they can have a profound effect on the sound. The theory why the dedicated, external reference makes a difference has to do with the fact crystal oscillators are electro-mechanical devices, so they are especially sensitive to their physical and electro-magnetic environment.  It may be the hammer method, and you can absolutely spoil the performance of an external reference with crummy cables or improper support, but the performance gains are there to be had!

@richtruss I really wish I could, UK  is a long way away from California, I'd actually make a bit detour to listen to that.   But i am taking your word for it. I will continue to assume that it's possible and be on the look out for some explanation.   This is part of what makes this fun.

Look, there are thing not completely explained going on in my own system.   Due to the system evolution, i have 3 methods to play files on my Roon Nucleus (that's another thing, when you do this for a living, messing around with DIY NUC is less appealing).  It can go this way, all with Roon:

Nucleus - Ethernet - Naim XD5 XS2 - Bricasti M3.

Nucleus - Ethernet - Bricasti M3 (optional network interface)

Nucleus - USB - Bricasti M3

Those 3 methods sound very, very similar.    As a reference, not as obvious as changing the M3 filter (Linear/Minimum phase).  I'm still trying to fully qualify this.   That's were this idea of being able to validate the bit stream the DAC gets would be awesome.   Since I have converted everything to Roon, I'd like to get the Naim off the stack, but at this point my perception is that this is the path that sounds best.   IMO, the path that has the best chances of presenting the right bits to the DAC would be be second option, no USB or SPDIF involved.   The quest continues.

@antigrunge2 Can't argue with DCS products.   John is a sales guy, keep that in mind.  This quote is out of context.    An external clock is useful 'maybe' to synchronize multiple boxes which i am not aware of any needs for doing so in HiFi.   There are difficulties with that too.

Again, clocking is not complicated, with the caveat that I am not designing DACs at DCS ;-).  One can go to Renesas or Analog Device and buy a a chip of a few  dollars that produces a clock with with jitter in the range of a few hundreds femto second.   This is another audio mystery to me.   I have no idea what is going on in a DCS clock box.   The engineer in me says that a 2$ chip right by the DAC is better/cheaper solution if the goal is to present the original bits to the DAC, but what do i know?  

I'd try a DCS DAC any day, dont get me wrong (Although i'd buy a Tambaqui in the spot if it would come to used market), but i really, really do not like the external Clock business.   Same a the Networking stuff, there is no engineering explanation for it.  The gobbledygook from John Quick isn't it.   I can speak gobbledygook but i prefer English.

This has zero applicability to Ethernet.    THERE IS NO CLOCK GOING ON Ethernet CABLES.   I dont know how else to say that.   1000baseT Ethernet has 8 wires, in 4 twisted pair, and they all carry data using the 4 pairs.   Every frame, carrying a data packet (typically less than 1500 bytes) starts with a fixed 8 bytes of data that the receiver uses to synchronize its clock to decode the payload.   Ethernet 're-clocker' aren't more of a thing than dry water, sorry, there has to be a line somewhere.  USB ire-clocker is a different matter, I would not be caught dead buying one, that's a different conversation, but at least there is something to talk about there (there is an actual clock ;-)). 

“Ethernet ’re-clocker’ aren’t more of a thing than dry water,”

@lmcmalo

You may choose to believe that or try one of the audio grade switches and report your findings. I believe your system is good enough to render any subtle changes with a switch like Silent Angel. If you choose not to be open minded, we understand that too! After all you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.