...sounds to me like the suspension is gone....send it to Ortofon or Soundsmith for a look-see
Few technical questions about an Ortofon MC cart on a Scout 2...
Non-technical enthusiast here, facing a bit of a conundrum...
I picked up a Scout 2 today, and the previous owner was kind enough to throw in a high end Ortofon X5-MC, albeit "possibly broken". During handling he knocked the cantilever. It’s perfectly centred and the stylus appears in tact, but when the cartridge makes contact with vinyl the cantilever recedes or "lifts" a hair...as in, it gets pushed back into the body by about 1-1.5mm.
The record player itself is in beautiful shape and appears to be functioning perfectly, but every record I’ve played so far sounds sluggish and rather muffled in the low end - particularly as compared to my spritely Rega P3.
Adding to the confusion is my phono preamp - a Sonneteer Sedley, which has all kinds of resistive and capacitance switches for MM/MC carts. I’ve tried about 3-4 settings so far, in the ballpark for a high output MC cart, but none has remedied this basic "sluggishness".
Can you kind folks help me diagnose this? Is the cartridge definitely kaput? If so, can it be repaired? Is it possibly a tracking/force issue?
I won’t bore you with the Sedley’s switches and X5’s technical specs unless it comes to that...
I picked up a Scout 2 today, and the previous owner was kind enough to throw in a high end Ortofon X5-MC, albeit "possibly broken". During handling he knocked the cantilever. It’s perfectly centred and the stylus appears in tact, but when the cartridge makes contact with vinyl the cantilever recedes or "lifts" a hair...as in, it gets pushed back into the body by about 1-1.5mm.
The record player itself is in beautiful shape and appears to be functioning perfectly, but every record I’ve played so far sounds sluggish and rather muffled in the low end - particularly as compared to my spritely Rega P3.
Adding to the confusion is my phono preamp - a Sonneteer Sedley, which has all kinds of resistive and capacitance switches for MM/MC carts. I’ve tried about 3-4 settings so far, in the ballpark for a high output MC cart, but none has remedied this basic "sluggishness".
Can you kind folks help me diagnose this? Is the cartridge definitely kaput? If so, can it be repaired? Is it possibly a tracking/force issue?
I won’t bore you with the Sedley’s switches and X5’s technical specs unless it comes to that...
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So...I launched YouTube and found a VPI walkthrough on basic setup... Major improvements! The cartridge was way too recessed and not correctly aligned. Still not as coherent a presentation as I'd like, but already much, much better. As I continue to refine my setup skills, I wonder if I could trouble you ladies and gentlemen with the following boring technical information? Here's what Ortofon says about the X5: Internal impedance, DC resistance - 80 Ohm And here are the Sonneteer's possible parameters:
1-4 are resistive loading...and 5-8 for capacitance. 9-10 are self-explanatory, I figure. Any suggestions? |
After looking at the manual for your phono stage I suggest the following: 1) Switches 1 through 4 for the left channel should absolutely/definitely/positively be set to the up position, which will provide the 47K load impedance your cartridge requires. If you have had any of those switches in the down position it would certainly result in major sonic degradation with this cartridge, and probably with nearly all other high output cartridges regardless of whether they are MC or MM. The corresponding settings should of course be made for the right channel, but BE SURE TO NOTE that those are controlled by switches 7 through 10, as the switch numbering is mirrored for the two channels (i.e. left 1 = right 10 and left 10 = right 1). 2) I suspect that left channel switch 9 (corresponding to right channel switch 2) would work best in the down (low gain) position, but depending on the design of the phono stage and the gains and sensitivities of the rest of your system it is possible that the up (high gain position) might be preferable in terms of noise levels and with respect to the positions of the volume control that you will find yourself using. It is also possible, though, that using the high gain setting would result in an obvious increase in distortion, due to overloading of the phono stage or the input circuit of your preamp or integrated amp. 3) The manual recommends that left channel switch 10 (corresponding to right channel switch 1) be left in the down (RIAA) position unless there is a problem with "cone flap" (i.e., woofer pumping) due to record warps. 4) After all of the foregoing settings have been optimized you can experiment with different settings of left channel switches 5 through 8 (capacitive loading), corresponding to right channel switches 6 through 3, which will affect tonal balance in the treble region. The unknown capacitance of your phono cable and tonearm wiring will affect what setting is optimal, which makes the optimal setting hard to predict. As does the vagueness of the "<500 pf" spec. But in any event be sure that the capacitive loading of the two channels is set to the same value; setting the values to be unequal would be an easy mistake to make given the mirrored numbering of the switches. Regards, -- Al |
Al, I'm touched that you took the time to look into this. That is extremely gracious of you. I note your absolute/positive/definitive suggestion that switches 1-4 on the left side be UP. That is curious, because switch 2 on the left side is the 47ohm resistive load, which is the only dip I have in the down position. Regardless, I'll take your advice and let you know! |
... switch 2 on the left side is the 47ohm resistive load, which is the only dip I have in the down position. That’s the problem, or at least most of it!! The 47K load that is recommended for the cartridge means 47,000 ohms, not 47 ohms (which would only be suitable for some low output moving coil cartridges). When you put left channel switches 1 through 4 and right channel switches 7 through 10 to the up position you’ll be applying the proper 47,000 ohm load to the cartridge, and I’m sure you’ll notice a dramatic improvement. Regards, -- Al |
P.S: When you make that change, though, you'll be significantly increasing the signal voltage that is received by the phono stage, so per my earlier comments you may find that the low gain setting of the phono stage (left channel switch 9 and right channel switch 2 both set to the down position) works better than the up position you are presently using. Regards, -- Al |
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Dear Al (and others), So the major switch to 47ohm made a night/day difference. The cartridge and table now sound like they should, barring some minor adjustments. One question though: so far in my experimenting, it strikes me that the cartridge sounds best - most "open" - with NO capacitance loading engaged. Should I continue to experiment here? I ask because the manual explicitly states that zero capacitance is not recommended. In the meantime, I've ordered a Shure force gauge to help me re-calibrate the cartridge from scratch. |
Excellent! Regarding capacitive loading, with the possible exception noted below I would ignore that statement in the manual and go with whatever sounds best to you. As I mentioned earlier the capacitive load applied to the cartridge will include the unknown capacitance of the phono cable and tonearm wiring (which is undoubtedly substantial, quite likely 150 or 200 pf or so), as well as the input capacitance of the phono stage (which is certainly not zero even when the so-called zero setting (all of the capacitive loading switches in the up position) is selected. Chances are the "zero" setting is a few tens of pfs. And the "<500 pf" load capacitance recommendation in the specs for the particular cartridge is not specific enough to be helpful, as of course it could mean anything between 0 and 500 pf. The exception I referred to is that perhaps the statement in the manual is based on a possibility that setting all of those switches to the up position might somehow adversely affect the sonics of the phono stage circuitry itself, although I can't envision how that might be the case. But **if** you don’t find the sonics of the zero pf setting to be noticeably better than the lowest possible other setting (10 pf) I suppose you might as well use 10 pf. Enjoy! Regards, -- Al |