Help Picking a turntable

gasherbaum,

you might also look into a table that won't be out for a month or two, the upcoming Oracle Origine.  It's on their site and has been seen at a show or two.......comes with a really great arm and an Ortofon 2M Blue for 2K Retail.......I am a longtime fan of Oracle and will possibly be trying this turntable with my desktop headphone system.......

Thanks for the info on the Oracle: I will definitely look into that.  So much great information and help from everyone on the turntable.  As an update, I took your advice and have gone to a few other stores here in town to listen to other turntables.  I have heard a couple other systems at some of the other stores here in town: a Pro-Ject Extension 10, a few other Pro-Jects that were less expensive, 2 VPI's and 2 Regas.  However, the systems I was able to hear them on were all different (the speakers, amps, preamps, phono stages, cartrdiges etc differed)  so it was hard to compare.  However, they all were an improvement over what I was hearing with digital.  I think the system at Soundings sounded the best, but that may be because the rest of the system they are using costs in excess of $150,000 and was better than the other systems and it may not be because  the turntable there (the Woodpecker) was better.  Hard to know, but I'm having a lot of fun researching it and also looking for LP's at my local stores and online.  I really like discogs.com for finding out of print and hard to find LP's.   I've already bought about 20 LP's. 

As I've been researching this and going to the various stores, I've also been learning more about cartridges and phone stages.  I didn't realize that different cartridges have different gain levels and some cartridges won't work well with some phono stages.   Yikes, I am a definite novice :)!!!     In addition to the Boulder phono stage at $13,000, Rod at Soundings thinks a ARC PH9 would fit nicely and costs $7,500.  But I can find an ARC 2SE on audiogon for a few thousand less,but have no idea which might sound better (Rod doesn't have a PH9 or a 2SE for me to try).  Rod hasn't heard either of them but says he spoke to Dave at ARC who says the PH9 would be better, but its hard to know as the PH9 just came out and the 2SE was just replaced by the Ref 3.  I've also heard a Lohman (not sure if i spelled it right) that sounded pretty good for $2000.  I may make another post just about phono stages to get some more ideas on what I need to be researching and looking for because I know so little. 

Thanks everyone for all the help.  I am very much enjoying the journey into vinyl and all the posts here have been tremendously helpful.  I greatly appreciate every one taking the time to help me out with all the amazing insight and advice.

The combinations are endless......musical phono stages are a black art compared to the tables........

The highest value per dollar phono pre in my experience  is the Parasound JC3+ @ around 3K retail.......the combo I heard it on was a Michell Orbe SE with an Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge.......the sound was absolutely magnificent, even though the cartridge was modest....

beyond that:

You're getting into stratospheric range when it comes to phono pres in comparison with a turntable in the 3k range........the mix doesn't make sense, versus say a 7K table combo and a 2K phono pre.....

Actually, if you move up in the Oracle line to the Paris MK V, you'd be at 3200 retail on the table/arm and then could do a PH200 phono pre which
cosmetically matches the table, so it could sit next to it and not
have to be hidden away.........at 1600 retail......the corinth low output MC cartridge retails @ 2250  The transfiguration Axia is about the same....

Total for entire setup and one of the sexiest tt's around:  7K estimated...
There's no reason you should not be able to buy this brand new
for mid 5K's total, arm, cartridge, table and phonostage....maybe mix 6s if you go up to the Parasound instead of the Oracle......

Stewart0722, thanks for the suggestions.  You are definitely right when you say its a black art :).  I've spent so much time researching and listening over the last few weeks and feel like I still know so very little, but I'm having a great time learning and every time I listen to a nice set up of vinyl and then go home I find my system lacking, so hopefully I will figure it out soon.  I would have been totally lost without all the help from this forum, so thanks to everyone that has posted and helped me out so much.  

gasherbaum (the OP) wrote:

...I didn’t realize that different cartridges have different gain levels and some cartridges won’t work well with some phono stages. Yikes, I am a definite novice :)!!! In addition to the Boulder phono stage at $13,000, Rod at Soundings thinks a ARC PH9 would fit nicely and costs $7,500....

It can be overwhelming when getting iinto vinyl playback for the first time (or first time in a long time). So many ’tables, tonearms, cartridges, and phono stages. So many interdependencies complicating the quest for an ideal system match.

But you’ll make your situation much more difficult if you try to achieve a really high end playback rig on your first try. Most people who get to a $10-20K turntable, $1500-7500 cartridge, and $3500-10k phono stage didn’t do it on their first purchase; it came as the result of years (probably decades) of purchases, living with the rig for awhile, and then incrementally upgrading.

You’ll be much happier purchasing an affordable overachieving rig that gives you much if not most of the satisfaction you seek using components that are affordable and easy to live with.

That’s why I recommended the GEM Dandy Polytable and Shelter 201. Both are highly affordable overachievers. I’m particularly enamored with the Shelter 201 now that I’ve had a week to play with mine. It has no noticeable flaws, no peaky highs or murky mids or flubby bass. It has a surprising amount of dynamic range; it never feels polite or compressed. Best of all, and this makes finding a phono stage easier, it has a claimed 4 mV output but I think it may be higher. I had been using a high output moving coil cart (2.2 mV) and I had to turn the gain way down to match the output to the cartridge’s input. This in turn lowered the noise floor significantly, which may account for such a large dynamic range. A lower noise floor is always a good thing.

So far I have played *a lot* of records on this cart in a week, covering bombastic orchestral spectaculars, solo piano, direct-to-disk big band, chamber music, small combo jazz, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Diana Krall, Dire Straits, Boz Scaggs doing Great American Songbook standards, nylon string guitar-driven Latin jazz, acoustic bluegrass, ’60s instrumental pop with subtle background vocals, Miles Davis, etc., etc. The cart always sounds like it was designed for whatever music it’s playing at the moment.

A high output cartridge will simplify selection of your first phono stage. you can get a really good phono stage for high output cartridges for a lot less than one of the same quality level made to handle 0.2mV cartridge output.