Help Picking a turntable

The combinations are endless......musical phono stages are a black art compared to the tables........

The highest value per dollar phono pre in my experience  is the Parasound JC3+ @ around 3K retail.......the combo I heard it on was a Michell Orbe SE with an Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge.......the sound was absolutely magnificent, even though the cartridge was modest....

beyond that:

You're getting into stratospheric range when it comes to phono pres in comparison with a turntable in the 3k range........the mix doesn't make sense, versus say a 7K table combo and a 2K phono pre.....

Actually, if you move up in the Oracle line to the Paris MK V, you'd be at 3200 retail on the table/arm and then could do a PH200 phono pre which
cosmetically matches the table, so it could sit next to it and not
have to be hidden away.........at 1600 retail......the corinth low output MC cartridge retails @ 2250  The transfiguration Axia is about the same....

Total for entire setup and one of the sexiest tt's around:  7K estimated...
There's no reason you should not be able to buy this brand new
for mid 5K's total, arm, cartridge, table and phonostage....maybe mix 6s if you go up to the Parasound instead of the Oracle......

Stewart0722, thanks for the suggestions.  You are definitely right when you say its a black art :).  I've spent so much time researching and listening over the last few weeks and feel like I still know so very little, but I'm having a great time learning and every time I listen to a nice set up of vinyl and then go home I find my system lacking, so hopefully I will figure it out soon.  I would have been totally lost without all the help from this forum, so thanks to everyone that has posted and helped me out so much.  

gasherbaum (the OP) wrote:

...I didn’t realize that different cartridges have different gain levels and some cartridges won’t work well with some phono stages. Yikes, I am a definite novice :)!!! In addition to the Boulder phono stage at $13,000, Rod at Soundings thinks a ARC PH9 would fit nicely and costs $7,500....

It can be overwhelming when getting iinto vinyl playback for the first time (or first time in a long time). So many ’tables, tonearms, cartridges, and phono stages. So many interdependencies complicating the quest for an ideal system match.

But you’ll make your situation much more difficult if you try to achieve a really high end playback rig on your first try. Most people who get to a $10-20K turntable, $1500-7500 cartridge, and $3500-10k phono stage didn’t do it on their first purchase; it came as the result of years (probably decades) of purchases, living with the rig for awhile, and then incrementally upgrading.

You’ll be much happier purchasing an affordable overachieving rig that gives you much if not most of the satisfaction you seek using components that are affordable and easy to live with.

That’s why I recommended the GEM Dandy Polytable and Shelter 201. Both are highly affordable overachievers. I’m particularly enamored with the Shelter 201 now that I’ve had a week to play with mine. It has no noticeable flaws, no peaky highs or murky mids or flubby bass. It has a surprising amount of dynamic range; it never feels polite or compressed. Best of all, and this makes finding a phono stage easier, it has a claimed 4 mV output but I think it may be higher. I had been using a high output moving coil cart (2.2 mV) and I had to turn the gain way down to match the output to the cartridge’s input. This in turn lowered the noise floor significantly, which may account for such a large dynamic range. A lower noise floor is always a good thing.

So far I have played *a lot* of records on this cart in a week, covering bombastic orchestral spectaculars, solo piano, direct-to-disk big band, chamber music, small combo jazz, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Diana Krall, Dire Straits, Boz Scaggs doing Great American Songbook standards, nylon string guitar-driven Latin jazz, acoustic bluegrass, ’60s instrumental pop with subtle background vocals, Miles Davis, etc., etc. The cart always sounds like it was designed for whatever music it’s playing at the moment.

A high output cartridge will simplify selection of your first phono stage. you can get a really good phono stage for high output cartridges for a lot less than one of the same quality level made to handle 0.2mV cartridge output.

I agree that most people don't "start" with a megabuck tt   or phono stage for that matter.....

I got the audio bug in the 1980s hearing a first generation Oracle Delphi in an audio shop, combined with ARC gear and Acoustic 2x2 used loudspeakers........on a classical piece of which I'll never know what it actually was, I felt I could just about crawl inside the cello......it was that pivotal moment all audiophiles can recall......and their wallets regret....

My turntables in succession:
Dual CS5000
Rega 1
Linn Axis
Acoustic Research ES1
Ariston RD11

Then I got out of vinyl for about 15 years

Upon returning to Vinyl, several years ago I got:

VPI Classic 1 w/ Benz Ace SL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVnFhnkrLTk
VPI Classic 3 w/ Lyra Kleos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rANy5pZJl7Q
Merrill 101.2 w/ Ortofon 12" arm, Arche headshell and Ortofon Cadenza Black as well as Ortofon Maestro Silver SPU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctaIWCcz9LQ
Finally, I went back to VPI and got an HR-X which I am currently on.....
I have a 12.7 metal arm (yes I do think it's better than 3d, which I've also had) and I've ended my cartridge search for the moment with
the Transfiguration Proteus......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_cJrj5DwwQ


The delight in VPI tables is their lack of finickiness......versus suspended tables.......the mass of the platter combined with a non suspended design creates what I'll call a large majestic sound.......

but it hasn't ended:

Based on an experience at the Chicago show listening to a suspended table......I just ordered:

Oracle Delphi MK VI Second Generation
Oracle SME V Tonearm
will stay with Transfig Proteus.....

I will be selling my 1 year old VPI HR-X soon to try the suspended flavor of Oracle and if it isn't to my liking, I'll probably just buy yet another HR-X......or I may just buy a wider rack and keep both......LOL

As to phono stage, going all the way back to the Classic 1, I've used the phono section in my Convergent Audio Technologies SL1 Renaissance Preamp........this is one of two components I'm absolutely sure will be my last in the category......the other is my Magnepan 3.7s  I added a Hashimoto HM7 based stepup for the extremely low output Proteus and it absolutely brought everything to life......so that's staying as well.....

As to HO MC, my experience has been the added coil weight isn't worth it, I would go to the king of the MM's the Ortofon 2M black, or a Grado statement..........if you opt for an MM phono stage.......

Boy oh boy - have you started a hornets nest with a hundred and one opinions. 
The Lenco boys will quote Arthur Salvatores article unti lthey are blue in their face.
The DD boys likewise with the SP10's - although I reckon the new SL1200 might be the best buy of the lot (meaning DD).
Try what I did and listen to as many decks as you possibly can - for a start it is really good fun - all have pro's and cons. Trust YOUR EARS and not others - not even reviews - just use them to identify potential products.
IMHO amongst those you ought to listen to, if only for mental notes - and in no order of preference:
1. Rega RP8, or RP10;
2. Linn Sondek (I wanted to dislike them unti l heard one with Funk Firm mods)
3. Project RP9
4. Townshend Rock (if you like them - you need to spend silly money to better its' particular blend of virtues)
5. Nottingham Analogue (very musical)
6. DPS (great timing)
7. Modified Lenco (great fun)
8. Garrard 301/401
9. Technics 1200 (new design)