How do you determine how much to spend on speakers

I revamped my system incrementally, assuming a $5k budget, over two years. I had a beefy old NAD receiver, a slightly modded Rotel 855 CDP, and DIY (Boston Acoustic designer help) 2 ways from Peerless drivers. Sounded fine for years.
I tried designing a three-way, but got too frustrated, so started the hunt. Knowing the critical nature of room-loading a transducer, I decided to find the best speaker I could IN MY ROOM. Started with Paradigm Powered Monitor, then Thiel 2.3, then Ariel 7b, then JM Labs 820 (?), then B&W803N. Finally I tried the speaker I'll live with forever.
Cost me $8k wholesale. I cried when I heard them.
Dealer told me to get a cleaner amp (especially pre) to drive them. Lots of buzz for the Audio Refinement Complete Integrated at the time. I borrowed one, and was astounded at how more musical and CLEANER it was than the NAD. Not enough powerm, though. Dealer recommended Alephs with these speakers. So I found used Aleph 2s. Now I could REALLY hear the noise and grit upstream! Auditions between ADCOM GFP750 and Aleph P proved doubtless that Nelson's REAL iteration was the way to go, despite cousin Wes's lauding of the ADCOM.
So that left the front end...which was actually the hardest part. Trials of Bel Canto, Arcam 9, Audio Refinement CD, Planet proved to be less musical than my old lowly Rotel!
How could this be? I added a Neuance under the Rotel, and now was even more amazed at how a 10yr old CDP could boogie.
Yet the digititis and glare were all way too much. Yet the Bel Canto needed a dimmer up top, and the ARCAM danced with two left feet...the ARC put me to sleep.
So I stuck my friggin neck out and bought a new EMC-1 with something called a 24/192 MkII DAC at cost from a Danish dealer. My God...I'm done. Ok, I'm still screwing around with cables, and I had to buy a new tuner, after all, and make my own dedicated lines and PCs (thanks, Sean, et al).
So the $5k budget grew to about $18 by the end...for $30k retail value.
Took two years to do, and I had to learn a lot.
One mentor/dealer now flew the bricks n' mortar coop and works for Lenbrook. I remember he once whispered something like "vinyl" at the beginning. But Redbook now sounds SO good I'm selling my AR table and not even thinking about SACD, nevermind DVD-A or combi-players. And boy am I buying CDs on sale!
Thanks, guys, for all the help.
Hope this helps the threadhead.
In a nutshell: find transducers that you fall in love with while auditioning with appropriately neutral electronics.
Then match the electronics and cables to the power and spectral requirements of your system as you deem satisfying musically.
The NAD receiver and 2 ways do nice duty in the family-room HT system. But what a difference!
Good luck.

I recently replaced my very old stereo system, and was confronted with the same issue, how to allocate limited funds among the components. I did not know much about modern stereo equipment, and had the belief that I should put most of the money in speakers, because they make the biggest difference.

I first read up on stereo equipment, and then went to a local stereo shop last fall that carried Creek, Acoustic Research, Krell, Cary, Audio Physic, Soliloquy, and California Audio Labs equipment, among other things. I listened to various combinations of equipment at various price points, trying as much as possible to compare components by listening to setups where everything was the same except for changing the one component I was evaluating. What I learned was how much difference each component can make to the sound. For example, I listened in a small room to the Audio Physic Virgo II speakers (appropriately positioned) through an entry level Creek solid state amp, and thought the speakers were of average quality. I then listened to the same speakers but with a Cary CAD-300SE amp, and my reaction was WOW. I could not believe they were the same speakers. I also had assumed that choosing a preamp would make little difference, as I figured a line stage preamp simply switches the source component that is amplified, and controls volume. I now believe differently. I listened to the setup I purchased at home with 6H30 driver tubes in the preamp, and then substituted a different type of 6922 tubes recommended by the manufacturer of the preamp. My system with the substituted tubes in the preamp went from one I found highly satisfying, to a system with reduced soundstage, and thinner more analytic sound. I made similar observations about each of the other components. That taught me that the balance of the entire system is critical. The sound coming out of the same speakers can be completely different depending on the rest of the system.

Based on my limited experience, and the very interesting and informative remarks of those with greater knowledge and experience than I, my current thinking on the subject is:

---The balance of the system, and compatibility of each of the components, is critical. If the goal is to buy a system where none of the major components will be upgraded, do not spend too much on any one component (including the speakers) at the sacrifice of the other components.

--- If the goal is to buy a system where major components will be upgraded one at a time, by spending more on a particular component, it may not be necessary to upgrade that component, and it will save money in the long run. If this is the objective, at the $5,000 price level for the system, it may make sense to spend a greater percentage of the total on speakers, depending on the particular products that are chosen.

Best regards,

An important thing to remember is that you will
change as a listener once you own your own system.
By the end of the year you will hear things which
you don't presently hear. This maturation / learning
curve is part of the fun, but makes it very difficult
to predict the future.

For this reason I would advocate buying a well balanced
and matched system. e.g. $2k for speakers, $2k for amp&
preamp, $1k for source. I would advocate buying start-up
equipment from mainstream manufacturers. And above
all audition the components with your own ears
before you buy.

Krazeeyk:

I don't know if this has been said already, but what I would do is this. I would take a more balanced approach to things. And when I say that, I mean make sure that when you are putting together your audio system, make sure that your speakers are compatable with your electronics and your front-ends. In my opinion, buying a very expensive component in one area and then cheapening out in other areas sort defeats what you set out to do. And let me clarify this even a little further. Say if you spend $2,500.00 on the speaker system, and then you spend less than say, $1,000.00 on the amplifier, what that $2,500.00 speaker system is going to do is show up the shortcomings and the flaws of that $1,000.00 amplifier, and in the end, all that is going to do is hender your enjoyment of your system. And that defeats the purpose of what you set out to do in the first place. If you are going to overspend in one area at all, then I would spend about $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 on the amplifier and mate it to the $2,500.00 speaker system. In my opinion, a $1,500.00 amplifier will prove to be a more synergistic match for a $2,500.00 speaker, hypothetically speaking. And then that would leave less than $1,000.00 for a CD Player. I say less than $1,000.00 because you still have to allow for cables too. And I think that for a $5,000.00 system, you don't plan to be using any Radio Shack specials with it, will you?? So, in summing all of this up, how would I allocate my funds??? The way I would do so is as follows:

(01). Speaker System -- $2,000.00 to $2,500.00
(02). Amplifier (and more than likely, it will probably be an integrated model as opposed to a separate preamp/power amp) -- $1,500.00

(03). CD Player -- $1,000.00 (give or take $200.00 or so)
(04). Cables -- $200.00 to $500.00

If you follow this formula, it will give you a system that will give you a foundation to build on later on when you decide to upgrade, with the speaker system and amplifier being cornerstones for your new system. The component I'll be looking to upgrade down the road would be the CD Player (and possibly, the cables).

What do you think of this idea??

--Charles--

This thread seems about dead but I will kick in my own POV.

There really is no argument that speakers make more of a difference in the sound of your system than any other component. Electrostatics, cones, horns....all produce quite different sounds.

There is also more bang for the buck in speakers up to maybe $2-3K, maybe even to $10K. That is to say, a $200 CD player doesn't sound as good as a $2000 CD player but the difference isn't nearly as great as owners of high end CD players will tell you. It just isn't; listen for yourself.

In contrast, you can buy an EXCELLENT set of speakers for $2000 whereas a $200 pair will drive you and your cats right out of the house. Again, this is simple truth that you can confirm by listening for yourself.

That's why the GIGO or "spend more on the source" argument is ultimately fallacious.

My suggestion is that you listen to various types and makes of speakers until you have a feel for the kind of speaker sound that you like. Then buy a moderately good pair of speakers of that type. Match them with sound mid-fi electronics and get busy listening. As your ears become more sophisticated, you'll probably want better electronics but if you've done your homework the speakers will keep you happy long enough to get your electronic upgrades done. THEN...if you long for better reproducers you can start questing for them.

In summary:
(1) Speakers vary more in sound than any other component...by far!
(2) Speakers differ in quality more on the basis of price than any other component...by far!
(3) Speakers are the most important key to listening satisfaction.

And the nice thing about my dogmatic assertions is that they're all so easily provable....just by listening.

Enjoy!

will