How do you know when a stereo sounds good?


When do you know your system is pleasing to listen to? How do you conclusively prove to yourself that your system sounds good to you? How do you determine that you enjoy listening to music through your stereo? Do you have a suite of measurements that removes all shadow of a doubt that you are getting good sound, sound that you enjoy? Please share.

128x128ted_denney

Well, if any question begs a tautological response, this is it.

A stereo sounds good to me, when it sounds good to me.

A stereo sounds good to you, when it sounds good to you.

It doesn't matter how one interprets the questions posed (whether "you" was intended to mean "one", or "me" as I read the question, the answer is the same). I've heard any number of systems that the owner was enthralled with, but sounded pitiful to me. In none of those instances was either of us wrong.

If the questions were intended to ask for a differential comparison, that's a very different matter, but also subject to the same preferential differences.

I would say, however, that if you cannot enjoy good music on even a mediocre system, it's not just the music you're interested in, or you have a very different understanding of music than I.  I fully enjoy listening to music in my Westy Vanagon, although it has the acoustics of an F2 tornado at highway speeds. I've flown >1M miles listening to Bose (or worse) headphones in horrendously noisy aluminum tubes, and enjoyed thousands of hours of music. I feel sorry for folks who can't enjoy the beauty of music if the decay of a cymbal isn't perfectly reproduced, or the "midrange" isn't perfectly liquid. Is it *more* enjoyable with better sound in a better acoustic? Sure, it can be, that is why we're here, theoretically.

But, I can be, and have been, brought to tears on particularly beautiful and soaring female vocal lines with mid-level cans on Youtube. If that's impossible for you, then I think you're missing an important part of the beauty of music. Mediocre reproduction of beautiful music is still beautiful. Beautiful reproduction of crap music is still crap.

That's just my opinion, of course, and it's totally impervious to the approbation or denigration by other's differing opinions.

@khughes , you are forcing me to both rethink my answer, to some degree, and revisit the question.

 

When do you know your system is pleasing to listen to? How do you conclusively prove to yourself that your system sounds good to you? How do you determine that you enjoy listening to music through your stereo? Do you have a suite of measurements that removes all shadow of a doubt that you are getting good sound, sound that you enjoy?

 

This is not the innocuous question this may seem to be. For those that don't know Ted, Ted has been on a multi-year, perhaps multi-decade attack on using measurements in audio. He created a "subjective" forum on Facebook where one is not allowed to discuss measurement, he makes fun of people who use measurements on multiple forums and in general to the point of being banned frequently.  It makes total sense, Ted's business is based around selling products that with few exceptions will produce no measurable benefit or a measurable difference so small as to be considered inaudible by any reasonably accepted metric. Even for the most obvious products, i.e. power conditioning Ted has never published any tests that show either a verifiable benefit other than a link one time by a 3rd party that showed just the slightest improvement.

Ted has published innumerable questions like this over the internet, in multiple independent forums, many of which he is no longer welcome at, and in multiple Facebook groups. So what you see as an innocuous question, I see as free marketing.

So since this is a free marketing posing as a question, I will respond with a

Do you have a suite of measurements that removes all shadow of a doubt that you are getting good sound, sound that you enjoy?

 

The answer is yes, yes I do.

- I don't think that my speakers are low distortion, I know they are.

- I don't think that my amplifiers are low distortion, I know they are

- I don't think my crossover are not adding coloration to the music, I know they don't

- I don't think I may or may not have system noise/ground/noise, I know I don't and where I did, I used products with known and verifiable benefits to fix the issue

- I don't have to guess at what my direct / reflected sound is, I know what it is

- I don't think I have an ideal in room frequency response (or more accurately whatever I want it to be), I know I do.

 - I also don't question whether my DAC is free or any number of real and invented artifacts,

- And just for good measure, I don't think my turntable is set up ideally. I know it is.

 

Now you may think that I believe the perfect path to audio nirvana is zero distortion and a perfectly flat response. You couldn't be farther from the truth. I am very aware of how distortion and frequency response can be manipulated in pleasing ways. I am also aware of what works for some music does not work for others, and even what works for one recording does not work for the next. So why did I set my goal to as perfect as possible?  Two reasons. One is I know exactly how my system performs, hence I know if what I hear is the recording or the system. Two, is I can (with signal processing) dial in whatever I want, depending on the recording, mood, who I am listening with, whatever.

 

Now I will give props where props are due. Ted does have a very good skill (other than marketing). I honestly believe that Ted has a very good ear, has a good feel for what his customers like to hear, or at least audio reviewers, and importantly, he knows how to set up a trade show room to sound pretty good, which is not an easy feat. There is a reason why Ted uses some of the best speakers made, and equipment that gives what many would consider a pleasant experience, typically tube gear with a typical higher frequency roll off good in a nasty hotel/trade show room. I have no doubt Ted spend hours listening in that room, moving the speakers, etc. till it sounds best, and having a good ear, is probably able to do this better than most.  What I don't believe is that SR equipment in the room, other than the acoustic panels, has much of any impact on the overall sound.

I dont need Ted products nor the DSP refine processing of our friend cindyment...

Why? Because my audio system is embedded in ACOUSTIC passive materials treatment and more importantly mechanically controlled with Helmholtz method...

Is my system better than the system of Ted or cindyment ? No

But it is so good i dont give a dam about upgrade... My system is under 500 bucks... All my device are homemade...

By the way we could create a soundstage out of the speakers and a good imaging WITHOUT great tonal timbre accuracy, but i cannot and i think nobody could create a natural great tonal timbre accuracy WITHOUT in addition gain a great soundstage...This is simply acoustic laws...

In acoustic reproduction of timbre ask for an acoustically controlled room...

But if i can create an impression and  an image filling the room without great tonal accuracy...i cannot create a tonal accuracy without at the same time creating a good soundstage...

Take my word for a personal experience, i am not a scientist like cindyment or a master in audio like Ted...

Feel free to contradict me...

A system does not sound good because we feel it is good.... A system sound good with minimal acoustical settings... If not it is an happy illusion... All my system were bad all my life and i always tought that they sounded good...

i realized that after my listening experiments in acoustic for the last years mostly...

i dont need my 7 headphones anymore nor any upgrade...

My system is not the best in audiogon for sure.... For the ratio S.Q./price it is the better or one of the better... 500 bucks for my audio system...

 

Dont upgrade before embedding mechanically and electrically and acoustically all the gear...This is my only discovery in audio....

Bad Hippie on is onto something here about being being happy with what you have.  About being content with what you have, I'll segue into this with this: I seem to remember Sinead O'Conner had something titled "I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got."  Using this mantra, a fella can save himself lots of grief in chasing the endless stereo set-up.  For me, I buy the stuff I can afford/save up for and then say, that's it for spending money; after all, stereo is just a hobby and a non-essential life expense, for most of us.  

I've been a audiophile since the start of the 80s. During that time, I've found out that you start to listen more to the sound that your getting than the music itself.

You will notice that certain music peaces sound very good on your system and others sound pretty bad. That will be the case in just about any case as all recordings are not of equal quality. Also, your listening room will make for 50% of your listening enjoyment.

I started to listen more to the music and less to the sound. That way, I can enjoy music in my car, just as much as my big rig. It's just a different experience. Enjoy the music first. Sound is secondary.