How important is it for you to attain a holographic image?

@orpheus10 " Without a shadow of a doubt, the most desirable aspect of high end audio is "The Holographic sound stage",

I’ve read a number of articles about this by high end audio critics who do not agree with that.

" Realism is not oversold, but it is very hard to achieve"

Define realism. It certainly isn’t what a sound engineer captures in a specialized studio where electronic music is recorded, usually on different tracks and often at different times and in some cases in different locations. Especially when virtually all of those tracks are altered after being recorded.

" Do you realize that it is impossible not to have these things, and at the same time to have "holography"."

I get that. But you can have all these things without what you call holography. And it appears that in that scenario there exist plenty of high end users who simply don't put holography as their primary goal or source of enjoyment.

Seems hard for you to get past that.

Do you realize that it is impossible not to have these things, and at the same time to have "holography".

I think it depends on what we are calling holography. If you mean a precise or too-precise stereo image, then no, you are not restricted to the FR like I have proposed. As I have mentioned, there are tweaks that enhance imaging at the expense of the FR.

Separately in another thread I discussed a speaker with very good imaging, and exaggerated vocal sounds.

This is a perfect example. Great imaging, wide sweet spot, and a FR that is not that natural to my ears.



Best,
E

Another recent example was the McIntosh XR50.

Great transparency, and imaging when vocals weren’t rattling the driver frame. :)

Of course, having it all is ideal, but I have so far seen frequency response and imaging to be independent features in most speakers.

I guess this is what should separate the truly great from merely useful speakers. :)


Best,
E

"Holographic sound" is the end of a very long journey; it’s not a button on a preamp that reads "Holographic sound".

It’s for certain that you can’t get it when you don’t know what it is, and even then, not every recording delivers "Holographic sound", but if your "system" can deliver holographic sound, you can bet it delivers whatever else is on that recording.

I refer to "system" because I am speaking of an organic whole thing in which the room is a very important component that requires a considerable amount of expertise that may require outside help. Although I’m a retired electronics technician, quite capable of dealing with the equipment, "the room" was outside of my field of expertise. (it’s no wonder no one wants "Holographic sound")

The components required are no less than grade "B" as ranked by Stereophile; sorry "mid fi" will just not make the grade.

I refer to "Holographic sound" as a long journey, because you have to know "intimately" what each and every component in your rig is contributing to the whole; that requires a considerable amount of audio education and study, not to mention days of "critical" listening, which means not listening to the music, but focusing on frequency response, or transparency.

After you have acquired the necessary components, and gone over everything twice, it’s still not quite there; it’s "lopsided".

Back to the drawing board; "Why does the left channel sound louder than the right channel ?"

The answer to that question can take months to discover, and after the answer is found, the solution to the problem can take even longer to solve; no wonder there are so many who don’t want "Holographic sound".

I completely disagree that the holographic image is the most important factor in arriving at the high end in audio.   The most important  factors are the rhythm, tone/harmonics and dynamics in achieving an enjoyable representation of music.   I've been to hundreds of music show rooms and salons and for the last decade, I've encountered a plethora of bad sounding/non-engaging equipment which strives to present the air, ambiance and holographic precision of the recording venue above all else.  Very often, the three main factors I've mentioned are partially or wholly missing in reproducing the musical recording event (live or recording studio).  

The finest audio system I've heard ($1.5 million von Schweikert/VAC/Kronos/etc). presented a overwhelming realism based on my three most important factors.  Sure there was air and ambiance, but what struck us most of all was the realism of the 3 factors above. 

Younger audiophiles are often unacquainted with live acoustic music heard in good acoustic venues.  I listen to classical, vocal and jazz in live venues.  (I also listen to manufactured sounds as in rock and electronic sounds as in Yello).  Essentially, the high end audio system must get the first three factors correct and will achieve the air, ambiance and holographic sound as a bonus.   How often have I heard high end systems miss the big 3 and have tons of the latter 3 bonus elements playing Diana Krall and Patricia Barber recordings.  Young audiophiles need to hear all types of music to gain an understanding as to what makes music sound good and engaging.  The last decade has had so many equipment manufacturers trying to outdo each other in the realm of air and holographic imaging.  They should be concentrating in presenting the big 3 factors first.