2. tech-talk
  3. 1332143340

How much can be measured -- and how much cannot?

There has been a lot of discussion over the years on Audiogon regarding the measurement of components and other audio products. Some people claim everything is either measurable now or will one day become measurable with more sophisticated measuring equipment. But others say there are things in high end audio that will never me measurable and that measurements are really not that important.

Here is a typical example -- a quote taken from the Stereophile forum regarding their review of the Playback Designs MPS-5:

"JA 2/17/10 Review Measurements of Playback Designs MPS-5
Posted: April 13, 2011 - 8:42am

John Atkinson's 2/17/10 review measurements of the Playback Designs MPS-5 revealed less than stellar technical performance even though Michael Fremer really liked the player. I've included JA's closing measurement remarks below followed by the manufacturer's comments.

To my knowledge there was never any followup in Stereophile regarding the manufacturers reply the MPS-5 could not be adequately measured with traditional measurement techniques.

I believe Stereophile should respond to this reply in the interests of its own measurements credibility.

Len"

How important do you think measurements are? Are the ears really the only true arbiter?
sabai
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Al,
I agree with your clear reasoned examples, they will certainly have value in determining likely(or unlikely) compatability. They won`t help in determining the sound quality of various component matching.
spinaker01
491 posts
 
I like to refer to a statement from Kevin Voekes (sp?) of Revel speakers fame. He states that measurements are indeed important in designing equipment but the ultimate test is double blind listening sessions. His summation? A speaker that measures bad never sounds good, but conversely a speaker that measures good does not ALWAYS sound good.(but stands a better chance of sounding good) I think this may apply more heavily to transducers than electronics, but I feel most of the improvements over the past 20 or so years are due to either improved materials and/or increased ability to take the measurements that DO matter. Without this, we are only left with the Art of design, which is falling off in favor of the Science of design as capabilities improve to measure the aspects of performance that truly do make a difference.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,399 posts
 
"I agree with your clear reasoned examples, they will certainly have value in determining likely(or unlikely) compatability. They won`t help in determining the sound quality of various component matching."

Disagree somewhat.

Accurate impedance specs or even estimates are more likely to help assure quality of certain attributes (like dynamics and distortion) of the resulting sound than anything else.

However true that there is no guarantee that specs are accurate and the complete nature of the resulting sound still cannot be known until heard regardless.

Perhaps it would help to look at certain specifications and their application (like impedance matching)as a form of quality control one can practice before buying, though as has been stated repeatedly, the complete final results cannot be known until heard.
sabai OP
2,027 posts
 
Spinaker01,
This is a very good point that you make:

"A speaker that measures bad never sounds good, but conversely a speaker that measures good does not ALWAYS sound good.(but stands a better chance of sounding good)..."

Knowing a speaker's measurements and knowing how to interpret them may allow us to avoid making a costly buying error.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
"the complete nature of the resulting sound still cannot be known until heard regardindless"
Exactly! when all is said and done you still 'must' rely on your ears to judge the sound quality.I don`t believe we disagree on this conclusion.
Regards,
More to discover