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How to Achieve Great Imaging & Soundstage

Hey 'Goners,

While my primary system is in flux, I'm starting to think about revamping my second system, which employs monitor sized speakers in a small (16x16) living room. I love audible holigraphy!!! My desire is to put together a system that creates great 3D imaging and soundstage. While this thread may use my current setup as an example - its real intent is to get advice for/from all interested agoners about the most important factors required to achieve great imaging and soundstage: speakers, electronics, tweaks, room acoustics...

My current system consists of a Classe CAP-101 integrated attached to Triangle Titus 202 speakers using AQ Slate cables. The CD players vary from an Arcam FMJ CD23 to a Cary CD308, using Kimber PBJ IC's. The room is 16x16 and organized on the diaganol, with the speakers on either side of a loveseat (a necessary 'no-no' due to space constraints). The ceiling is doube-high and tilted down to the rear. I currently don't get much imaging at all, even if I remove the loveseat. The sound is overall good, though a bit bright, and I think the upper-end of the Titus speakers is a bit edgy and unrestrained - probably needs a shift in system synergy. It's a carpeted room with stuffed furniture, but the walls are bare and hard and there is a picture window with a fabric shade.

So what is most important: componentry or setup? While in San Francisco last week I audioned Totem Mani-2 and Model 1 speakers, as well as B&W N805's (all driven by a Rotel CDP, Aragon preamp, and ??? SS amp). The latter two speakers provided very good soundstage and imaging, but the Mani-2 wasn't as good. I note that the N805 appeared to get good imaging partly from its high frequency emphasis, and I was wondering whether the Model 1's achieved good imaging due to their small size. Is small size a big boon towards good imaging??? I'm also wondering how much difference the electronics could have been making. Even though imaging fell short in 1/3 speakers, how much are electronics a necessary key ingrediant?

So the questions I want to pose here are:

1) WHAT IS YOUR HIERCHIAL APPROACH TO ACHIEVING EXCELLENT IMAGING AND SOUNDSTAGE?

2) IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR GEAR THAT YOU WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND TO ACHIEVE THIS END?

I'll be attending CES in January, and will be listening for the best in this realm. But they only show current gear - and older, used components are a resource not to be ignored.

Thanks All.
peter_s
mythtrip
18 posts
 
Audio Physic speakers are known for their soundstaging ability, they disappear completelely when positioned correctly. I bought the Virgo II's largely for their imaging ability. ONly problem is that you have to put them out into the center of the room for them to sound their best, they typically require a dedicated listening room.
cdc
1,773 posts
 
Two words: point source. From my listening experiences, the closer a driver comes to initiating sound from a point source, the better the imaging. The more the speakers will disappear.
The second major issue is cabinet size/ difraction/ resonance. A small cabinet will usually have less resonance. A narrow cabinet like Audio Physic is very important.
Third may be tube electronics giving better depth. Something to do with phase shift.
Of course speaker placement, far out from front wall with nothing between them.
slawney
242 posts
 
This is not a hierarchical approach, but a few tips.
First, choose speakers which image well (ProAc Tablette Reference, ProAc Response 1sc, Arcus Cello, Sonus Faber, Totem, etc.).
Experiment with positions in the middle of the room to avoid colorations from wall reflections. Do not place in front of angled walls; remove obstructions in back of the speakers to avoid wave diffraction.
Use extremely stable, heavy stands, that are coupled well to the floor, and raise the tweeter to ear level. Couple the speaker to the stand using either Blue-Tac, spikes, or Symposium rollerballs.
Take the crossovers out of the cabinet and place them on a dampened support at least a few feet from the speakers themselves.
Make sure the speaker cables are exactly the same length for each side.
(Although this is not really crucial for soundstage, you can experiment with different cable lengths for tweeter and woofer between the crossover and the drivers. The total signal length in the crossover is typically unequal for each. Also, decay times for tweeter are much faster than the woofer. If possible measure this with lab equipment.)
Bi-amp if possible with the same model amplifier. Hopefully the amp has a relatively short and uncomplicated signal. (SET amps, minimalist SS like 47 Labs Gaincard, etc.)
Use relatively simple speaker cables and raise them off the floor, making sure they make no contact with speaker cabinet. I prefer thin single-strand solid-core copper speaker cables directly soldered (with minimum amount of solder) onto the speaker terminals and crossovers.
Upgrade crossover components (capacitors, etc.). If possible, do away with all circuit boards for crossovers, and directly wire crossover components to each other.
Remove speakers and examine damping material in the cabinets, to make sure it is equal in volume and distribution. You can experiment with changing it, if you want.
Tighten the speakers to the cabinet.

jlambrick
138 posts
 
I've gone to the extent of creating a "Live End, Dead End" room in order to eliminate early reflections. The early relections are what your auditory system uses as cues for determining the spatial location of a sound source and the room signature can create conflicting messages. If the recorded source is good, the imaging of my system seems very accurate for height, width, and depth. I also tend to prefer a deadish room because it doesn't superimpose a small room signature over the recorded ambience but this approach requires more power for a given perceived loudness.
judit
217 posts
 
Slawney, curious you should mention the angled walls at the front of the room.

I just finished reading a technical artical on the Sequerra site that recommends inserting quasi walls of absorbing material angled behind the speakers in rectangular rooms. There was a window between the speakers.

In my own contemporary listening room, the front walls are angled at 15 degrees. Looks just like the picture in the article. From an empirical perspective, My speakers image very very well.
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