I heard the Box

millercarbon9,636 posts
I always dreamed of meeting another who can actually hear these things.

Chuck, one thing has always cast doubt on your superior hearing abilities for me. It’s your claim that there is no difference between the sound of different tubes. I can’t understand how someone who can hear the difference between his cable elevators with and without rubber bands can’t hear the difference between a current production Russian made Mullard, a vintage Telefunken and a vintage Amperex, for example. Maybe you’ve changed your mind about that. Have you?

If you don’t want to hear boxes there are other choices.  It’s not the end of the world. 

Some very revealing ideas here thanks!

Chayro seems to have addressed my question most accurately-Thanks!

Some further background:
-My main Speakers are big Tannoy Monitors and I do have
 not heard a box influence. They are 180 lbs each and I listen
 at 60-70db max so not much resonance.
-Floor is concrete slab 
-EV model is not ported

Gaulke60-
What does "Hearing the Box" actually sound like?
A bit like the sound you would hear if you were using your hands on the sides of your mouth to extend the volume of speech.
If your hands were made of wood. 

Agree about open Baffle sound. But it seems the space to the back wall needs to about double vs a non-dipole design. This dictates the need for a larger room, correct?

If it’s a box speaker you are always hearing the box to some extent. It is there for a reason of course.
Safe to say in general the boxes used for good quality speakers have come a long way.
There is more than one way to use a box. For an example check out Ohm Walsh speakers. Those manage to use the box only for the things it helps with ie low frequencies. Mbl is similar in that way. Also a number of full range horn designs like Avantegarde.

tomc6-
Chuck, one thing has always cast doubt on your superior hearing abilities for me. It’s your claim that there is no difference between the sound of different tubes. I can’t understand how someone who can hear the difference between his cable elevators with and without rubber bands can’t hear the difference between a current production Russian made Mullard, a vintage Telefunken and a vintage Amperex. Maybe you’ve changed your mind about that. Have you?

First, that "I've always dreamed" line was teasing.

But as for tubes, Whoa, whoa, whoa! No way I ever said that!

Not even. What I said is tube rolling is a crapshoot - IF that is all you are doing. I stand by that comment. If all you are doing is trying tubes hoping to find ones that will sound better, well they are out there but your chances of finding "the one" are so low you are much better off to put your time and money and effort into things with a lot higher chance of actually making a positive improvement. There are a lot of such things, and for a lot less money. Tube prices are all over the place, but a guy could easily spend $500 tube rolling and in the end have nothing to show for it but some nice backups. While that same $500 could buy a Fuse, some ECT or HFT, some Cable Elevators- or a power cord, any number of things, each of which will be a lot better than the tubes.

But, and this is an important but, this all depends on what you mean by tube rolling. I'm assuming the normal, "Hey guys what do you think?" approach. Waste of time and money. Which is in total contrast to what I am doing now, talking with Dave Thomas of Raven, a guy who totally knows his tubes. Whole different ball game.

I think you will agree this is a lot more refined and sophisticated view than saying there's no difference between tubes. I've said all along there definitely are differences. Heck, I recommend JJ for their great sound quality and reliability at a good price. So I know there are differences in sound quality, because I have heard them. 

So I have no problem hearing differences between tubes. No problem picking the best ones either. Only problem I have is the shotgun approach. Rifle and scope, I am all over it. Why I'm calling Dave Thomas. Literally. Left him another message just before writing this.